Wordprint Studies & the Book of Mormon

[Philo Sofee]

Hoping someone gets the Finian’s Rainbow reference…

Aye, and an Enish-go-on-Dosh to ye, Paddy O'Consiglieri!

I hear a bird, a Hill Cumorah bird.
It may well be he's bringing me a cheer'in word.
I hear a breeze, a River Sidon breeze.
It may well be it's followed me across the seas.
Then tell me, please.

How are things on Hill Cumorah?
Is the sacred grove still standing there?
Does it still run down to Palmyra?
Through Angola, Onidah, and Zara-hem-la?
How are things on Hill Cumorah?
Is that willow tree still weeping there?
Does that Lamanita with the twinklin' eye
Come whistlin' by
And does she walk away,
Sad and dreamy not to see me there?

The talent oozes out of your feathers...

[consiglieri]

Ummmmm … Penguin…

[MG 2.0]

Don't be bitter because of the falseness. Striking at Consig just exposes you.

And makes me stronger.

The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done” (History of the Church, 4:540)

“The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught.
“For God doth not walk in crooked paths, … neither doth he vary from that which he hath said, therefore his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round.
“Remember … that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men” (D&C 3:1–3).

Your power has its limits.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

And I think you have let your arrogance take the better part of your soul/being.

Do you have any ongoing issues with having been rejected at times back in the day when you believed you had answers that…from your perspective…no one wanted to hear? When your writings and publications were at times rejected by those you were seeking approval from? Have you, since those days, had it as a continual goal to prove yourself and ‘one up’ those in authority positions?

“I think we are all dumber for having read that.”

Arrogance personified. Your soul has become cankered with resentment me thinks.

You and I are both old enough to have read/heard that the first indicator that one is on the road to apostasy is when one finds fault with the brethren.

With your RFM status you are now getting that recognition you’ve craved.

Regards,
MG

Wow, MG!

So judgmental!

Have you been saving this analysis hoping for an opportunity to use it?

by the way, isn't a prohibition on criticizing leaders one of the common indicators of a cult, or cult-like organization?

Do you believe that it's wrong to criticize the "brethren", even when they are at fault?

Edited to fix quote.

You noticed a tinge of judgement, huh? If anything I said is untrue I’m willing to be corrected. Sometimes things need to be said.

Yes, you are correct malkie. It is common for criticism of leaders to be squelched within political and religious organizations that wish to gain and then maintain unrighteous dominion over the souls of men. Think of China. And yes, Scientology. Examples abound. It often happens in families also when men exercise unrighteous dominion over their wives and children. Husbands and fathers unwilling to take criticism from the very people that they have been called to love and cherish.

Here is some wise council for those that have ears to hear and hearts to be penetrated.

Elder George Albert Smith said this about criticism: “Aren’t we rather prone to see the limitations and the weaknesses of our neighbors? Yet that is contrary to the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is a class of people who find fault and criticize always in a destructive way. There is a difference in criticism. If we can criticize constructively under the influence of the Spirit of the Lord, we may change beneficially and properly some of the things that are being done. But if we have the spirit of faultfinding, of pointing out the weaknesses and failings of others in a destructive manner, that never comes as the result of the companionship of the Spirit of our Heavenly Father and is always harmful.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1934, p. 50.)
More recently, President Gordon B. Hinckley said: “I am not asking that all criticism be silenced. Growth comes of correction. Strength comes of repentance. Wise is the man who can acknowledge mistakes pointed out by others and change his course.
“What I am suggesting is that each of us turn from the negativism that so permeates our society and look for the remarkable good among those with whom we associate, that we speak of one another’s virtues more than we speak of one another’s faults.” (Ensign, Apr. 1986, pp. 3–4.)

This may help answer your question.

If a person no longer believes the leaders of the church to be inspired or able to receive revelation it is also more likely that they will feel free to criticize with abandon. Not saying that you do. I’m speaking generically.

It’s interesting that up to this point RFM has been able to dodge the bullet, so to speak. I suppose that speaks to his ability as a lawyer to use weasel language/words to circumvent his way around direct actions or words that would warrant disciplinary action. Time will tell whether he will be able to skate ‘the fine line’ without falling.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

It’s interesting that up to this point RFM has been able to dodge the bullet, so to speak. I suppose that speaks to his ability as a lawyer to use weasel language/words to circumvent his way around direct actions or words that would warrant disciplinary action. Time will tell whether he will be able to skate ‘the fine line’ without falling.

The second anointing-----membership has its privileges.

[huckelberry]

The word print studies were based on garbage eyeballing science. Invented by an Anglican minister named Morton. Thoroughly discredited.

This thread is full of vague hand waving with few exceptions. This is one. It is very incomplete but does have something specific to say. I wonder if it is correct. I have had questions in my mind about the word studies but I have no expertise. One difficulty is that there have been a variety of them. Even Uncle Dale presented his word studies.

I thought this thread was about wordprints, why all the cliches about testimony and personal character?

[Bought Yahoo]

The word print studies were based on garbage eyeballing science. Invented by an Anglican minister named Morton. Thoroughly discredited.

This thread is full of vague hand waving with few exceptions. This is one. It is very incomplete but does have something specific to say. I wonder if it is correct. I have had questions in my mind about the word studies but I have no expertise. One difficulty is that there have been a variety of them. Even Uncle Dale presented his word studies.

I thought this thread was about wordprints, why all the cliches about testimony and personal character?

This paper of mine (https://bobcrockettlaw.com/wp-content/u ... graphy.pdf) tackles a number of topics unrelated to wordprint studies, but in the body of the paper I discuss the Morton method. And I consider myself an apologist, or have been. The Morton method does questionable plotting of very subjective things (requiring, at a minimum, a trained linguist) and then asks the reader to eyeball deviations. That is not statistical science. I could explain how statistical science could handle a wordprint analysis but I thoroughly dislike what these apologists have attempted.

Please excuse the multiple typos in my draft. It is an early draft.

Here is one of my footnotes: For further criticisms of the Morton technique as used for the Book of
Mormon, see D.I. Holmes, "A Multivariate Technique for Authorship Attribution and its Application to the Analysis of Mormon Scripture and Related Texts," History and Computing, Vol. 3, No. 1, 1991, Pages 14, 20-21

My paper focused upon the use of the Morton method to attribute authorship of a Times and Seasons article to Joseph Smith. The fellows doing the Morton test were not linguists and had no professional power to make highly subjective decisions. All they did was copy the analysis done by Wayne Larson and Alvin Rencher who did the Book of Mormon study. https://scholarsarchive.BYU.edu/cgi/vie ... text=byusq.

Larson was a part time BYU professor and a statistician. Rencher was a statistics professor. The paper also bears the name of a graduate student in stats.

But the paper did not use dependable statistics, but instead a bogus multi variate analysis which, like I say, required eyeballing a graph. Their method, if it could theoretically work, required a detailed decision-making process by linguists familiar with 1830 English and the works (many they are) of Joseph Smith. These guys totally lacked that experitise.

In the case of my Times & Seasons article, apologist Matt Roper and a statistician named Fields had even less expertise in the technical application of multivariate analysis, and neither were linguists. All they did was copy Larsen et al's methodology without following all the steps.

As all the steps of Morton's analysis have been called into serious question, it seems that Roper and Fields would have at least followed all his steps.

[Dr Exiled]

Wow, MG!

So judgmental!

Have you been saving this analysis hoping for an opportunity to use it?

by the way, isn't a prohibition on criticizing leaders one of the common indicators of a cult, or cult-like organization?

Do you believe that it's wrong to criticize the "brethren", even when they are at fault?

Edited to fix quote.

You noticed a tinge of judgement, huh? If anything I said is untrue I’m willing to be corrected. Sometimes things need to be said.

Yes, you are correct malkie. It is common for criticism of leaders to be squelched within political and religious organizations that wish to gain and then maintain unrighteous dominion over the souls of men. Think of China. And yes, Scientology. Examples abound. It often happens in families also when men exercise unrighteous dominion over their wives and children. Husbands and fathers unwilling to take criticism from the very people that they have been called to love and cherish.

Here is some wise council for those that have ears to hear and hearts to be penetrated.

Elder George Albert Smith said this about criticism: “Aren’t we rather prone to see the limitations and the weaknesses of our neighbors? Yet that is contrary to the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is a class of people who find fault and criticize always in a destructive way. There is a difference in criticism. If we can criticize constructively under the influence of the Spirit of the Lord, we may change beneficially and properly some of the things that are being done. But if we have the spirit of faultfinding, of pointing out the weaknesses and failings of others in a destructive manner, that never comes as the result of the companionship of the Spirit of our Heavenly Father and is always harmful.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1934, p. 50.)
More recently, President Gordon B. Hinckley said: “I am not asking that all criticism be silenced. Growth comes of correction. Strength comes of repentance. Wise is the man who can acknowledge mistakes pointed out by others and change his course.
“What I am suggesting is that each of us turn from the negativism that so permeates our society and look for the remarkable good among those with whom we associate, that we speak of one another’s virtues more than we speak of one another’s faults.” (Ensign, Apr. 1986, pp. 3–4.)

This may help answer your question.

If a person no longer believes the leaders of the church to be inspired or able to receive revelation it is also more likely that they will feel free to criticize with abandon. Not saying that you do. I’m speaking generically.

It’s interesting that up to this point RFM has been able to dodge the bullet, so to speak. I suppose that speaks to his ability as a lawyer to use weasel language/words to circumvent his way around direct actions or words that would warrant disciplinary action. Time will tell whether he will be able to skate ‘the fine line’ without falling.

Regards,
MG

I think it has to do with his leaders not being so easily offended like some apparently are. Critics don't have to be ex-communicated. The leaders can choose to not be offended by what a critic says and it looks like that is what is going on with Consig's local leaders. Also, the SLC brethren probably haven't given any marching orders yet.

[Moksha]

My paper focused upon the use of the Morton method to attribute authorship of a Times and Seasons article to Joseph Smith.

Sounds like this should be submitted to the Interpreter, after rigorous peer scrutiny, they could have it published by next Friday.

[Philo Sofee]

MG2.0
Yes, you are correct malkie. It is common for criticism of leaders to be squelched within political and religious organizations that wish to gain and then maintain unrighteous dominion over the souls of men. Think of China Mormonism. And yes, Scientology The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Examples abound.

Now it's all inclusive without any silly bias...