Rittenhouse Trial: Calling Res Ipsa

[Gadianton]

In your mind, what was the likely outcome of Rosenbaum catching up to Rittenhouse if Rittenhouse did not shoot him?

Also, who was the aggressor? Kyle or Rosenbaum in this situation?

Depends. If he threw the gun down and surrendered prior to being caught up with, I think it would most likely have ended with words. Then Ro would have to decide if he's gonna pick up that gun and become a target for LE.

K wasn't a member of a rival gang. He was a weenie and no glory for beating the guy up. Once owned and separated from his gun, I don't think there would be much incentive to go farther. There's more risk legal risk for beating up a much younger kid who doesn't appear to have ties to the street -- gangs, drugs etc.

If he lost control of the gun when Ro grabbed it, I think that could have led to getting pushed to the ground or punched, but I give a full-blown beating 1 in 10 odds, and hospitalization or death, lower than 1 in 100.

Ro was clearly the aggressor when he pursued a guy who was running away.

[Binger]

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[Kishkumen]

I think it’s hilarious that two unarmed men who attacked a guy wielding a loaded AR-15 are being called “beta males.” If the roles has been reversed, and Kyle had been killed for attacking one of these guys wielding an AR-15, Binger would be calling him a hero and a martyr or some such. Beta male here just means “person I don’t like who is out there for a cause I don’t believe in.”

If anything, it’s the guy who needs to walk around with a loaded gun who is the beta male. If he can’t survive without arming himself like a soldier around unarmed people, maybe he should just stay home and play video games. Police are trained to use deadly force, trained to check aggression, and empowered by the state to stop lawbreakers. The last thing this world needs is a lot of limpdicked losers with AR15s running around “protecting” empty used car lots and the like.

[Binger]

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[Binger]

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[doubtingthomas]

What was reasonable was Kyle assuming that jump kick man, Huber, and Grosskreutz were going to cause him great bodily harm or death considering they were kicking him, hitting him with a skateboard

That crap happens every day in middle schools and high schools.

and aiming a gun at him.

Who pointed a gun first?

I don't think it's reasonable to assume someone running down the street open carrying a rifle is an active shooter.

A lot of police officers make that assumption.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGZnB41_e4

[Binger]

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[Gadianton]

I’m not sure why folks want to hail Rittenhouse as some kind of hero.

Because in their minds he got away with the ldsfaqs doctrine of "get into their faces with your guns, and when they flinch, shoot their asses!" (I really need to find the exact quote).

That's exactly what he did. He didn't go out there to protect a car lot. He went out to provoke people into provoking him such that he held the right to respond with deadly force. As I've also said, when reality presented itself, it wasn't like the fantasy, and he wasn't relishing the moments as they unfolded. He really was "defending himself".

Similar-minded militia men see his work as groundbreaking, and it's on the table for them now to go and do likewise.

[Kukulkan]

I don't think it's reasonable to assume someone running down the street open carrying a rifle is an active shooter. Especially considering they didn't actually witness Kyle shoot anyone, they were going off of what the crowd was saying.

That might be enough, combined with the fact that he’s seen pivoting about at one point with the AR pointing in the direction of others around him.

I don’t see it unreasonable to assume that a person in this situation might still use that firearm than not. Especially given that some in the crowd were confirming a prior use.

Even more so that Kyle wasn't strafing the crowd with his rifle or issuing verbal threats such as "I'm going to shoot you." What was reasonable was Kyle assuming that jump kick man, Huber, and Grosskreutz were going to cause him great bodily harm or death considering they were kicking him, hitting him with a skateboard, and aiming a gun at him.

The reasoning here, like for the previous example, can be flipped just as easily.

The crowd chasing Rittenhouse didn’t issue verbal threats of, “we’re going to beat you to death!”, so Rittenhouse had no reason to suspect that death was his certain fate. Right?

Rittenhouse aimed at jumpkick guy before jumpkick guy even launched into a jumpkick. And Grosskreutz can be seen halting before Rittenhouse when the latter was on his arse and facing his general direction. Grosskreutz could have fired at that time, but did not. That would indicate that killing Rittenhouse wasn’t his intent.

Same for Huber, who struck Rittenhouse with the skateboard while attempting to vault over and disarm him, as opposed to stopping to repeatedly strike. If he was trying to kill Rittenhouse, he’d have stayed on him.

None of these details matter much to Rittenhouse’s mindset, so his decision to fire makes some sense. I agree that what happened did not represent intentional homicide. But, in retrospect, it was not necessarily his best decision, and it certainly wasn’t the only decision.

I’m not sure why folks want to hail Rittenhouse as some kind of hero. He chose to insert himself into the midst of jackassery, and then commit his own handful of acts of supreme dumbfuckery. He has punched the face of responsible firearms ownership and use; his actions couldn’t be a better cudgel for folks to use or legislate against open carry or against firearm owners who are actually responsible enough to know what they’re doing.

I don't follow the logic. How is Rittenhouse, who ran away from his aggressors and only resorted to using force when absolutely necessary, comparable to Rosenbaum and others who actively ran towards Rittenhouse and were quick to attempt or use force against Rittenhouse. They seem very incomparable to me.

[Binger]

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