Are school shootings the price we have to pay for the second amendment?

[Father Francis]

Absolutely. What I am trying to say is that if we just go the route of 'ban all or most guns', people wishing to cause mass violence will turn to other methods that are just as equally as deadly.

On a psychological level guns make killing easier than most other methods. If a psychiatrist or LCSW needs to evaluate the risk of you harming others or yourself they ask if you have a gun in your home. They'll also ask if you have any other methods, but the only specific one the ask about is the gun. There's a reason for that.

[Gadianton]

It's a semi automatic and shoots incredibly fast follow up shots. Also, I hunt with a 10mm semi automatic handgun. Every once in a while I'll go to the mountains to hunt and use an AR10, also semi automatic

sure, the point wasn't that these guns aren't effective. You could take your local militia to the mountains with your M-16s and achieve a final victory over the deer. The point is it's more of a challenge and better for game populations to hunt with limited capacity.

[doubtingthomas]

Absolutely. What I am trying to say is that if we just go the route of 'ban all or most guns', people wishing to cause mass violence will turn to other methods that are just as equally as deadly.

Okay. I will accept your point. However, psychology may play a role. It is well known that guns do affect suicide rates, so it is also possible that guns increase mass violence incidents.

"Permissiveness of firearm laws, pro-gun culture, and suicides by firearm in the U.S., 2000–2016"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5221001439

"Does regulation matter? A cross‐national analysis of the impact of gun policies on homicide and suicide rates"
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... rego.12235

"Guns and suicide: A fatal link"
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magaz ... d-suicide/

"Guns and Suicide: Are They Related?"
https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/depres ... d-suicide/

And statistically a person is more likely to die by suicide than by murder.

[Gadianton]

If I'm reading this right, your solution is basically to merge schools with retirement communities and police precincts.

It's a huge amount of effort on behalf of the rest of society to maintain the privilege of a few people who for the most part are just collectors, if it wasn't guns, it would be star wars figures or tools or something. My neighbor with the scary, futuristic-looking guns got rid of them a few months after showing them to me and got into cycling; started buying bikes in the thousands of dollars range instead. A sub-few of the original few collectors actually use their guns once a year to blast up boxes from home depot in the wilderness.

And even if we could alter society to primarily function as an early warning system for the benefit of the collectors, it wouldn't work. And that's because the element of surprise is such a great advantage, especially when combined with a semi-auto with high capacity magazine. As Jersey Girl suggested, restricted points of entry with metal detectors and bag searches is probably the most practical solution for parents who want to keep their kids safe while preserving the rights of the collectors.

The buy-back suggestion is a great one, but that only makes sense if you've first made the laws restricting guns.

[Marcus]

from Scientifically Oriented Psychotherapy.

Like BYU used to provide with the help of electrodes?

No he is not referring to anything like that. Not everything needs an inappropriate joke reference.

No back biting from the socks!

What do you mean?

back·bit·ing
malicious talk about someone who is not present.

I was stating my opinion about your response. Directly to you. And non-maliciously.

[Kukulkan]

Absolutely. What I am trying to say is that if we just go the route of 'ban all or most guns', people wishing to cause mass violence will turn to other methods that are just as equally as deadly.

On a psychological level guns make killing easier than most other methods. If a psychiatrist or LCSW needs to evaluate the risk of you harming others or yourself they ask if you have a gun in your home. They'll also ask if you have any other methods, but the only specific one the ask about is the gun. There's a reason for that.

Yes. I just don't think if we were able to drastically reduce the amount of guns in the USA or remove them completely, that we would see the drastic change in mass violence many people think. Maybe I am just pessimistic about human nature. I think rather than going for the short-term route of finding a way to 'ban most or all guns', we need to create better and longer lasting solutions. Addressing the issues causing the acts of mass violence will go much further in helping our society and actually causing change. The money poured into those kinds of programs and policies will be much better spent then on some sort of gun buyback program or door-to-door removal of guns. Even if you ban semi-autos and let them be grandfathered in like the automatic weapons ban you still have all of those weapons in circulation most likely forever. I guess I think the people who are intent on causing mass violence are going to do so regardless of the existence of a gun or not. I think the examples I have provided earlier exemplify that.

[Kukulkan]

Absolutely. What I am trying to say is that if we just go the route of 'ban all or most guns', people wishing to cause mass violence will turn to other methods that are just as equally as deadly.

Okay. I will accept your point. However, psychology may play a role. It is well known that guns do affect suicide rates, so it is also possible that guns increase mass violence incidents.

"Permissiveness of firearm laws, pro-gun culture, and suicides by firearm in the U.S., 2000–2016"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5221001439

"Does regulation matter? A cross‐national analysis of the impact of gun policies on homicide and suicide rates"
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... rego.12235

"Guns and suicide: A fatal link"
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magaz ... d-suicide/

"Guns and Suicide: Are They Related?"
https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/depres ... d-suicide/

And statistically a person is more likely to die by suicide than by murder.

Glad we can agree. I think people are creative. People will find ways to kill themselves in the absence of guns.

[Marcus]

I'd have to look into this more, but just going on memory, haven't most recent school and youth killings by minors or young people involved guns? Changing the access children have to guns and where they can take guns (i.e. not through metal detectors at schools) seems like a straightforward first step.

[Some Schmo]

I'm not sure what makes people think there's a mental health issue in the US that isn't in every other country. People all over the world have issues. This isn't uniquely American. What is uniquely American is the second amendment.

But let's just pretend for a second that the US suffers from more mental health problems than other counties. What's the solution when millions of people don't have access to health insurance? Are people who have to snuggle up to their guns each night going to support universal healthcare to tackle this "mental health issue?"

[Kukulkan]

I'm not sure what makes people think there's a mental health issue in the US that isn't in every other country. People all over the world have issues. This isn't uniquely American. What is uniquely American is the second amendment.

But let's just pretend for a second that the US suffers from more mental health problems than other counties. What's the solution when millions of people don't have access to health insurance? Are people who have to snuggle up to their guns each night going to support universal healthcare to tackle this "mental health issue?"

I would like to offer a counter to your statements. According to available data it does seem the US is facing disproportionate levels of mental health issues compared to similar countries. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/public ... -countries

I think tackling the issues like affordable health insurance will do wonders in terms of reducing gun violence and mass violence in the USA.