Mormons and Critical Race Theory

[Res Ipsa]

Another horrifically out of context quote:

Black-white or any other kind of binary thinking can
also cause a minority group to go along with a recurring
ploy in which whites select a particular group—usually a
small, nonthreatening one—to serve as tokens and overseers of the others. Minorities who fall into this trap hope
to gain status, while whites can tell themselves that they
are not racists because they have employed a certain number of suitably grateful minorities as supervisors, assistant
deans, and directors of human relations.

Note the wording used here. It's not that the minority group goes along with the ploy from the majority group. That would be the language I would expect from a college textbook discussion of a valid social theory.

It's that the minority group goes along with the ploy of the whites. Oppression isn't caused by a majority, it isn't caused by a ruling class, it isn't caused by powerful people. It is caused by white people.

Are you an expert on what constitutes a "valid social theory?" And, yes, you picked a single paragraph out of a chapter critiquing binary thinking in race relations, removing it from its context. And, if you're interested in actually learning something, Ibram Kendi wrote about the problem described in this paragraph in How to be an Anti-Racist.

[Res Ipsa]

I don't care whether you view critical race theory as a helpful analytical tool or not. It's like any other tool for understanding society and how it works -- some parts may work well, some may not. I do care whether people understand it before making sweeping judgments about it.

It matters when people minimize the legitimate problems with it. Mein Kampf is a tool for understanding society as well. Instead of blaming whites, it blamed the Jews.

My position is that it is never correct to blame a race of people, based on their skin color, for anything. The correct attribution is class, power, majority, etc. There is nothing inherently evil in white people, there is nothing inherently evil or noble in any skin color.

critical race theory doesn't teach that white people are "inherently evil." They do, however, dominate the very things you think are important. To claim that race is irrelevant when one race dominates "class, power, majority, etc." would be naïve.

So far, you haven't actually identified legitimate problems, other than your attempt to cast it as "anti-white."

[drumdude]

To claim that race is irrelevant when one race dominates "class, power, majority, etc." would be naïve.

This is the same horrifically stupid observation as noting that there are a large number of Jews in Banking, Hollywood, and Universities.

It might be true. It might be true that Jews are overrepresented in positions of power. What do you want to do about that, Res? How do you want to fix that? What is your solution?

[Res Ipsa]

To claim that race is irrelevant when one race dominates "class, power, majority, etc." would be naïve.

This is the same horrifically stupid observation as noting that there are a large number of Jews in Banking, Hollywood, and Universities.

It might be true. It might be true that Jews are overrepresented in positions of power. What do you want to do about that, Res? How do you want to fix that? What is your solution?

I don't view "might be's" as problems that require solutions. Give me studies and data. For example, we have data that shows that black folks receive disproportionately unfavorable outcomes at almost every step of the criminal process. Do you just pretend the racial component doesn't exist because you cling to the notion that the law, in theory, is colorblind? Or do you take a closer look to see if the criminal justice system in practice is anything but colorblind.

[drumdude]

Are Jews whites? Are they minorities? Do some Jews pass because they are white enough, and other Jews not pass because they are darker?

Which Jews deserve affirmative action, and which deserve to be excluded? Does the Holocaust count as enough oppression points? Are we digging into the actuarial tables to decide how many racism points to award to individuals, after we measure their skin color with a chart?

[Morley]

Are Jews whites? Are they minorities? Do some Jews pass because they are white enough, and other Jews not pass because they are darker?

Which Jews deserve affirmative action, and which deserve to be excluded? Does the Holocaust count as enough oppression points? Are we digging into the actuarial tables to decide how many racism points to award to individuals, after we measure their skin color with a chart?

Who are you arguing with? Who brought up Jews?

[drumdude]

Are Jews whites? Are they minorities? Do some Jews pass because they are white enough, and other Jews not pass because they are darker?

Which Jews deserve affirmative action, and which deserve to be excluded? Does the Holocaust count as enough oppression points? Are we digging into the actuarial tables to decide how many racism points to award to individuals, after we measure their skin color with a chart?

Who are you arguing with? Who brought up Jews?

critical race theory has created this narrative of whites versus minorities. It's a very simple question, where do Jews sit?

You test theories by throwing edge cases at them. Bad theories fall apart when they become ridiculous.

[Morley]

Who are you arguing with? Who brought up Jews?

critical race theory has created this narrative of whites versus minorities. It's a very simple question, where do Jews sit?

You test theories by throwing edge cases at them. Bad theories fall apart when they become ridiculous.

No it hasn't. Critical Race Theory is concerned with race as a social/political construct. Not as a skin color chart. Read the book you keep referencing.

[drumdude]

critical race theory has created this narrative of whites versus minorities. It's a very simple question, where do Jews sit?

You test theories by throwing edge cases at them. Bad theories fall apart when they become ridiculous.

No it hasn't. Critical Race Theory is concerned with race as a social/political construct. Not as a skin color chart.

Page 83, quoted again.

“Box checking” allows people of white or near-white appearance to gain the benefits of affirmative action without suffering the costs of being thought of and treated as black or brown.

[Morley]

No it hasn't. Critical Race Theory is concerned with race as a social/political construct. Not as a skin color chart.

Page 83, quoted again.

“Box checking” allows people of white or near-white appearance to gain the benefits of affirmative action without suffering the costs of being thought of and treated as black or brown.

Yes. Because that's the part of the social construct.