Shulem Cracked the Book of Mormon Code, the Land of Nephi is now revealed! See for yourself! The Golden Key!

[Marcus]

Even though I have not met you in real life I have heard enough to cause me to think, with a degree of certainty, that you and others here are “blind” to those things that would interfere with the way you have come to view your place in the world and all that this encompasses. I don’t expect that IF you took the time to read essays/articles such as the one I’ve just posted that it would substantially or even fractionally change your world view. I get that. I’m not going to go through and humor your laziness/apathy by spoon feeding what an author has to say....

Your track record is dismal inasmuch as actually engaging with the material that is put right in front of your smug little face....

said by the guy who WON'T READ THE THREAD.

This is, of course, the point at which you laugh and tell me to go look in the mirror, right?

Finally. Something is sinking in.

My hope would be that there are lurkers and/or others that still have an open mind and are willing to engage with ALL the information available rather than restricting themselves ONLY to that which supports their dogmatic conclusions/position....

Again, I simply hope there are those that are questioning their faith who might pop in here and find any links, ideas, thoughts that I have to give them help give them another reason to really take a deep dive in their journey rather than making premature judgements that ultimately affect them and their families for the rest of their lives, if not for eternity.

you say this quite a bit, and I'm going to call bullish*t on it. You know full well that you have absolutely no proof whatsoever that there are people who 'pop in here' when they are 'questioning their faith'. If you really believed this you wouldn't make every effort to be so condescendingly negative toward people, because of the turn-off that would be to your 'lurkers' who are 'questioning their faith'. You are here because it fulfills your mean-spirited need to troll.

You are of no concern/interest to me.

That's true. Trolls troll because of their psychological issues, not because they care about those they target.

Back to Shulem's topic:

I avoid apologetic essays and articles like the plague (Gordon B. Hinkley's pornography) so I don't poison my mind.

Smart. You're not missing much.

...Let's further enlighten ourselves from the sermon brother Cowdery gave to the entire Church. The last statement previously quoted in this thread from that sermon was:

. . . In this same spot, in full view from the top of this same hill, one may gaze with astonishment upon the ground which was twice covered with the dead and dying of our fellow men.

And with that, allow me to quote the remainder of the sermon for your benefit and for those who are reading this thread:

Here may be seen where once sunk to nought the pride and strength of two mighty nations; and here may be contemplated, in solitude, while nothing but the faithful record of Mormon and Moroni is now extant to inform us of the fact, scenes of misery and distress-the aged, whose silver locks in other places and at other times would command reverence; the mother, who in other circumstances would be spared from violence; the infant, whose tender cries would be regarded and listened to with a feeling of compassion and tenderness; and the virgin, whose grace, beauty and modesty, would be esteemed and held inviolate by all good men and enlightened and civilized nations, alike disregarded and treated with scorn!-In vain did the hoary head and man of gray hairs ask for mercy; in vain did the mother plead for compassion; in vain did the helpless and harmless infant weep for very anguish, and in vain did the virgin seek to escape the ruthless hand of revengeful foes and demons in human form-all alike were trampled down by the feet of the strong, and crushed beneath the rage of battle and war! Alas, who can reflect upon the last struggles of great and populous nations, sinking to dust beneath the hand of justice and retribution, without weeping over the corruption of the human heart, and sighing for the hour when the clangor of arms shall no more be heard, nor the calamities of contending armies no more experienced for a thousand years? Alas, the calamity of war, the extinction of nations, the ruin of kingdoms, the fall of empires and the dissolution of governments! O the misery, distress and evil attendant on these! Who can contemplate like scenes without sorrowing, and who so destitute of commiseration as not to be pained that man has fallen so low, so far beneath the station in which he was created?

In this vale lie commingled, in one mass of ruin, the ashes of thousands, and in this vale was destined to consume the fair forms and vigerous systems of tens of thousands of the human race-blood mixed with blood, flesh with flesh, bones with bones, and dust with dust! When the vital spark which animated their clay had fled, each lifeless lump lay on one common level-cold and inanimate. Those bosoms which had burned with rage against each other for real or supposed injury, had now ceased to heave with malice; those arms which were, a few moments before nerved with strength, had alike become paralyzed, and those hearts which had been fired with revenge, had now ceased to heave with malice; those arms which were, a few moments before nerved with strength, had alike become paralyzed, and those hearts which had been fired with revenge, had now ceased to beat, and the head to think-in silence, in solitude, and in disgrace alike, they have long since turned to earth, to their mother dust, to await the august, and to millions, awful hour, when the Trump of the Son of God shall echo and re-echo from the skies, and they come forth, quickened and immortalized, to not only stand in each other's presence, but before the bar of him who is Eternal!

With sentiments of pure respect, I conclude by subscribing myself your brother in the gospel.

OLIVER COWDERY.

Thus, Oliver Cowdery dedicated the burial grounds of Cumorah under the direction of the prophet Joseph Smith!

Amen.

PS. Philo, are you feeling more of those shivers? lol

shivers aplenty, my friend!

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

So, it appears MG didn’t actually read the article he linked. Why am I not damned surprised? This is actually too funny. Instead of reading the article he linked, and asked us to read, he complained about the person who simply asked him to copy and paste a portion of the essay he found contextual to this thread.

He couldn’t do it.

Once again, that Mormon priesthood holder lied, acted in bad faith, and threw a fit when found out.

Mormons. -_-

- Doc

[Shulem]

For Shulem, the fact that HIS views are in fact substantiated, by an apologist(!), ought to cause him to eat it right up and THEN either spit it out or consume it to add to his repertory of information.

I don't spend much time reading Mormon apologetics -- rabbit holes that lead to constant denials. I'm sure you've noticed that I've spent little time in this thread bashing apologetic models of the Book of Mormon. Believe me, I could destroy them all very easily and pound them to powder but that is not the purpose of this thread. I've tried to keep this thread positive and upbeat. This thread is all about Delmarva and how Joseph Smith was influential in revealing that to me! Hello! I've had a bloody revelation, baby!

I'm not blind, MG. I see clearly. Take for instance the nine characters in the register above Isis in Facsimile No. 3. I can see them. I can read them. I know what they say. And guess what? I don't see a King's name in that writing, nowhere in that writing! "If we will but open our eyes, and read with candor" we can see that there is no King's name in Facsimile No. 3 and therefore Joseph Smith was wrong. The Church essay on the Book of Abraham should say "JOSEPH SMITH WAS WRONG!"

"But none are so blind as those who will not see" and that certainly does not include me. I can see Facsimile No. 3. I can see what Joseph Smith & Oliver Cowdery taught about Cumorah! I can see that with my own eyes and understand exactly what they were saying.

My conscience is clear, my friend. Quite clear.

[Shulem]

You are of no concern/interest to me.

Regards,
MG

That is not a Christian thing to say. There is no need for a disciple of Christ to say that. It's unnecessary. If you feel that way then keep it to yourself. Work it out.

You should retract that comment. Really, you should.

[Shulem]

shivers aplenty, my friend!

Excellent! This thread has been revived although I had given up on it because it seemed people were not interested in my Book of Mormon Silver Bullet. But I have made an impact and if ur getting shivers, then I'm making a difference.

What about Philo? Where did he run off to? Philo, what did you think of brother Cowdery's (dedicatory) blessing of prayer and well wishes for all those dead folk buried deep in the "vale" at Cumorah? Them bones down there under the soil are someday going to resurrect! Cowdery pulled an Ezekiel! And all of it with Joseph Smith approval.

But guess what? Smith was too afraid to do the sermon himself! He didn't want to talk about Cumorah and the dead who were under the soil there at the vale of destruction. He let Oliver do the job because he wanted to remain tight-lipped and avoid further questions or inquiry. Smith didn't want anyone to undergo archeology at Cumorah because he knew there was nothing there. If Smith really believed in Cowdery's blessing upon the "vale" then he would have erected a monument and undergone extensive digging in proving the cause.

In this respect, Smith was a coward. He hid behind Cowdery's back in hopes that it would blow over and they could move on to other topics and avoid exposure. Smith must have felt relief that it blew over and the saints moved on.

[MG 2.0]

So, it appears MG didn’t actually read the article he linked. Why am I not damned surprised? This is actually too funny. Instead of reading the article he linked, and asked us to read, he complained about the person who simply asked him to copy and paste a portion of the essay he found contextual to this thread.

He couldn’t do it.

Once again, that Mormon priesthood holder lied, acted in bad faith, and threw a fit when found out.

Mormons. -_-

- Doc

I read it. The main thrust of the essay is that the Two Cumorah stance/position that some members of the church take isn’t a position one is pressed to take if you’re a ‘south of the border’ kind of guy. Which is more or less where I stand. It’s a very reasonable and well thought out position outlined in the essay. The author goes into MUCH more detail than I would like to here. That’s why I asked others to read it on their own and immerse themselves in the details provided.

The Heartland model and the Two Cumorah Theory have some issues that are serious as far as I’m concerned.

Like I said, you probably won’t want to read it. It might actually make sense!

I honestly don’t care one way or the other if you do or if Marcus does either. I would be interested in Shulem’s thoughts, however. It seems as though it would be right up his alley.

Except for the fact that it is written by an ‘apologist’ who takes a position of Book of Mormon historicity.

As I mentioned earlier, I have another audience I care about and am more concerned with than the apostates that inhabit this board. Once an apostate, always an apostate. It’s very hard to do a 180. I don’t expect to change any hearts and minds on that crew.

My guess is there are lurkers and others on this board who are not yet in that category. We just don’t hear much, if anything, from them. Hopefully the denizens of this board are not ALL going to hell in a hand basket.

By the way, I say that somewhat facetiously. There are a lot of good, decent folks here that are apostates nonetheless. The two can coexist as one.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

You are of no concern/interest to me.

Regards,
MG

That is not a Christian thing to say. There is no need for a disciple of Christ to say that. It's unnecessary. If you feel that way then keep it to yourself. Work it out.

You should retract that comment. Really, you should.

In the context within which I am saying it I don’t see it as a personal insult. It’s just a matter of fact. I have little to no concern or interest in what Doc has to say. This position is based upon a long string of interactions which have been more or less a complete waste of time. And yet I generally have tried to respond to him with a modicum of civility. But it’s a waste of time. So yes, I stand by my statement, he is of no concern to me and I have very little interest in what he has to say.

But I’m sure he’s a nice guy in many respects.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

shivers aplenty, my friend!

Excellent! This thread has been revived…

And if you would like I will exit stage left. I think I may have steered things away from where you want things to continue. I’ve said my piece so I’m willing to let things go where they may at this point.

Thanks for letting me exercise my right of free speech.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

So, it appears MG didn’t actually read the article he linked. Why am I not damned surprised? This is actually too funny. Instead of reading the article he linked, and asked us to read, he complained about the person who simply asked him to copy and paste a portion of the essay he found contextual to this thread.

He couldn’t do it.

Once again, that Mormon priesthood holder lied, acted in bad faith, and threw a fit when found out.

Mormons. -_-

- Doc

I read it. The main thrust of the essay is that the Two Cumorah stance/position that some members of the church take isn’t a position one is pressed to take if you’re a ‘south of the border’ kind of guy.

Now I'm having some doubts you read the article also. I'm no expert in this, but it's pretty clear the paper doesn't argue for the 'two cumorah' stance but rather only a single cumorah.

Which is more or less where I stand. It’s a very reasonable and well thought out position outlined in the essay.

Another disagreement, which is why I excerpted some parts in my previous post. The author thinks some previously debunked and even fraudulent stories need to be given another look, on the off-chance something in there might be real. His main reference for these debunked positions and frauds is a book written in 1833, American Antiquities.

To me, that's not a well-thought-out position.

The author goes into MUCH more detail than I would like to here. That’s why I asked others to read it on their own and immerse themselves in the details provided.

Clearly you didn't.

The Heartland model and the Two Cumorah Theory have some issues that are serious as far as I’m concerned.

Like I said, you probably won’t want to read it. It might actually make sense!

not for the reasons I've now spelled out twice. Read the paper.

I honestly don’t care one way or the other if you do or if Marcus does either. I would be interested in Shulem’s thoughts, however. It seems as though it would be right up his alley.

Except for the fact that it is written by an ‘apologist’ who takes a position of Book of Mormon historicity.

even if frauds and debunked theories need another look to make it work. I'm recommending a pass for Shulem.

As I mentioned earlier, I have another audience I care about and am more concerned with than the apostates that inhabit this board. Once an apostate, always an apostate. It’s very hard to do a 180. I don’t expect to change any hearts and minds on that crew.

My guess is there are lurkers and others on this board who are not yet in that category. We just don’t hear much, if anything, from them. Hopefully the denizens of this board are not ALL going to hell in a hand basket.

Right. That imaginary group. I don't think you impressed any of them today. : D

[Marcus]

You are of no concern/interest to me.

Regards,
MG

That is not a Christian thing to say. There is no need for a disciple of Christ to say that. It's unnecessary. If you feel that way then keep it to yourself. Work it out.

You should retract that comment. Really, you should.

In the context within which I am saying it I don’t see it as a personal insult. It’s just a matter of fact.
...I stand by my statement, he is of no concern to me....