Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[canpakes]

[K Graham]

BUCK: Mr. President, in the last 24 hours we know Russia has said that they are recognizing two breakaway regions of Ukraine, and now this White House is stating that this is an “invasion.” That’s a strong word. What went wrong here? What has the current occupant of the Oval Office done that he could have done differently?

PRESIDENT Trump: Well, what went wrong was a rigged election and what went wrong is a candidate that shouldn’t be there and a man that has no concept of what he’s doing. I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, “This is genius.” Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.

So, Putin is now saying, “It’s independent,” a large section of Ukraine. I said, “How smart is that?” And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well.

By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, you know, “I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent,” he used the word “independent,” “and we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.” You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad.

Notice how Trump, as usual, doesn't answer the question. And as usual, the sycophantic interviewer doesn't push him on it. It is a question I've been asking Right Wingers who are equally evasive when it comes to answering the simple question. What could Biden have done better to prevent a Russian invasion?

Trump starts rambling about a rigged election, the BIG LIE, and then goes into praising Putin for his actions. He calls him a genius for arbitrarily declaring portions of Ukraine to be "independent" from Ukraine, which is criminal at its core. Get that? Put decided to violate international law, act as a war criminal and militarily invade a sovereign democratic nation, which will inevitably lead to tens of thousands of deaths. And what's the reaction by our former commander in Chief? To call it an act of genius! And you wonder why people say Trump is an autocrat?

[K Graham]

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[K Graham]

Remind me again what Trump’s response was to 4 US troops being injured when their MaxxPro MRAP was intentionally rammed by a Russian Typhoon-K MRAP in 2020?

What was Trump’s response when intercepts of Russian jets off the Alaskan coast were drastically increasing? Or when Russian jets repeatedly buzzed within 100 ft in front of our B-52s?

These are just a few of the direct acts of aggression that were directly towards us, not some foreign country, or alliance.

This crap with Russia isn’t just because of Biden, or Trump, or Obama, or Bush, or… etc., etc. This is the result of decades of dysfunction. It’s because our enlightened self-interest hasn’t always been all that enlightened. It’s because we trade short-sighted “wins” for stable and sustained outcomes. It’s because we’re always just a few years away from a “just kidding, we’re now doing this” towards allies and aggressors.

Great points Steuss, I totally forgot about those incidents. I also remember Trump illicitly withdrawing from Syria, betraying our Kurdish allies, and basically handing Russia a free airport.

37 times Trump was soft on Russia

[Res Ipsa]

I don't think there's any mystery as to why Putin waited until after the Trump presidency to invade. Trump gave every opportunity for Putin to stage and get ready for an invasion. Then, as a campaign promise for a second term, he promised to withdraw the US from NATO. With UN unable to act because of Russia's Security Council veto and the U.S. out of the major military organization in the area, Putin would face little, if any, organized opposition. Trump would have sidelined the U.S.

[K Graham]

From that link of 37 examples of Trump being soft on Russia, these stood out to me to be the most significant in terms of relevancy today.

Trump didn’t publicly condemn Russian attack

According to congressional testimony, Trump declined to publicly condemn a Russian attack against Ukrainian military vessels in November 2018, even though the State Department prepared a statement for him. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo criticized Russia’s “dangerous escalation.” The White House didn’t say anything, but Trump canceled a meeting with Putin.

Trump ignored warnings of Russian bounties

The President was repeatedly told during in-person briefings and in written intelligence reports in 2019 and 2020 that the US government believed Russia paid bounties to Afghan militants to kill Americans, according to CNN and other outlets. Despite being given this information, Trump did not publicly condemn Russia or take any retaliatory actions. Trump has denied receiving any briefings on the topic.

Trump nixed US statement about Russian war

In summer 2018, Trump blocked his administration from releasing a statement on the 10th anniversary of the Russia-Georgia war, according to Bolton’s memoir. Bolton said European leaders noticed Trump’s silence and “became even more concerned about American resolve.” Russia invaded its neighbor Georgia during the five-day war in 2008, and still occupies two breakaway territories.

Trump suggested Russia can keep Crimea

Trump said Putin did “an amazing job of taking the mantle” when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014. During the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump broke with US policy and suggested he was OK if Russia kept the Ukrainian territory. He repeated a Kremlin talking point, saying, “The people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were.”

Trump defended Soviet invasion of Afghanistan

During a January 2019 Cabinet meeting, Trump defended the Soviet Union’s invasion of Afghanistan. He said the Soviet Union “was right” to invade in 1979 because “terrorists were going into Russia.” The comments puzzled many observers, who noted that the Soviets had invaded to bolster a communist government and the US had backed Afghan militants who fought the Soviets.

Trump’s Syria withdrawal gave Putin a boost
Trump announced in October 2019 that US troops were withdrawing from northern Syria. The abrupt move cleared the way for Turkey to conquer territories previously controlled by the US and allied Kurdish militias. It also gave Russia a golden opportunity to expand its influence and swiftly take over abandoned US outposts and checkpoints. Trump’s move was a boon for Putin.

Trump repeated Kremlin talking points on ISIS

After announcing the Syria withdrawal, Trump repeated Kremlin talking points about ISIS. He said, “Russia hates ISIS as much as the United States does” and that they are equal partners in the fight. But Trump’s comments don’t reflect the reality on the ground: Since intervening in Syria in 2015, the Russian military has focused its airstrikes on anti-government rebels, not ISIS.

Trump denied that Russia interfered in 2016

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the FBI, the CIA, the National Security Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, the Justice Department and the Senate Intelligence Committee all confirmed that Russia interfered in the 2016 election to help Trump. But Trump has repeatedly rejected this view, and publicly sided with Putin at the Helsinki summit in 2018, saying he accepted Putin’s denials.

Trump asked allies to let Russia back in the G7

Breaking with American allies, Trump repeatedly called for Russia to be invited back into the Group of Seven. Russia was suspended from the working group of leading industrial nations in 2014 after Putin annexed Crimea. At the August 2019 G7 summit in France, Trump pressed the other leaders to include Russia at the 2020 gathering. They balked at the request, which would have handed a huge victory to Putin without any concessions.

Trump refused to say Putin is a killer

Bucking other US leaders, Trump has dismissed credible allegations that Putin uses violence against his opponents. Trump said in 2015, “I think it would be despicable if that took place, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he killed anybody, in terms of reporters.” Asked again in February 2017, Trump deflected, saying, “There are a lot of killers. Do you think our country is so innocent?”

Trump mulled returning spy bases to Russia

The Washington Post reported in May 2017 that the Trump administration considered returning two diplomatic compounds to Russia. The Obama administration expelled Russian diplomats and seized the compounds in New York and Maryland after the 2016 election, claiming they were used for “intelligence” purposes. The compounds were never returned to Russia.

Trump transition undermined Russian sanctions

After the 2016 election, the Trump transition team asked Russia not to retaliate too strongly against new US sanctions imposed by then-President Barack Obama. The sanctions were intended to punish Russia for interfering in the election, but then-Trump aide Michael Flynn asked the Russian ambassador not to escalate the situation so they could have a good relationship once Trump took over.

Trump was open to lifting Russian sanctions

Days before his inauguration, Trump told The Wall Street Journal that he was open to lifting sanctions on Russia. He said: “If you get along and if Russia is really helping us, why would anybody have sanctions if somebody’s doing some really great things?” Putin has tried for years to persuade the US and European countries to end crippling sanctions on Russia’s economy.

Trump gave Russia classified intelligence

In a shocking move during the early months of his presidency, Trump shared highly classified intelligence with two senior Russian officials during an Oval Office meeting in May 2017. The intelligence, which was about ISIS, was sensitive enough that it could have exposed a vulnerable source. The unplanned disclosure by Trump rattled even many of his Republican allies.

Trump criticized and alienated NATO allies

Trump has repeatedly attacked NATO, aligning himself with Putin, who wants to weaken the alliance. Trump said NATO was “obsolete,” rattling European leaders. At his first NATO summit in May 2017, Trump scolded other countries for not spending enough on defense and declined to commit to NATO’s mutual defense pledge. (Trump later said he supported the mutual defense provision.) He has also said he wanted to withdraw from NATO, according to The New York Times, though it hasn’t happened.

Trump was reluctant to sign Russian sanctions

Lawmakers passed a bipartisan bill in July 2017 imposing new sanctions against Russia, even though Trump administration officials reportedly tried to water down the language. Trump reluctantly signed the bill, but claimed the new law contained “clearly unconstitutional provisions.” Trump had little choice in the matter because the bill had passed with veto-proof majorities: 419-3 in the House and 98-2 in the Senate. (The Treasury Department followed up with several rounds of hard-hitting sanctions.)

Trump eased sanctions on Deripaska

The Treasury Department in 2018 sanctioned Russian oligarch and Putin ally Oleg Deripaska, along with three companies linked to him, over his support for Russian interference in the 2016 election. But by January 2019, the Trump administration lifted some of these sanctions. In a bipartisan rebuke, 11 Senate Republicans supported a Democratic resolution calling for the sanctions to remain.

Trump balked at sanctions for Skripal poisoning

Trump privately complained about US sanctions intended to punish Russia after one of its ex-spies was poisoned in the United Kingdom, according to Trump’s former national security adviser John Bolton. The US and UK blamed Russia for trying to assassinate the defector, Sergei Skripal. After the sanctions were announced in August 2018, Trump tried to rescind them and said the US was “being too tough on Putin,” according to Bolton’s memoir.

[Binger]

LMAO. MMMmmmmmmkay.

Right on cue, running interference for any and all criticisms of Trump. But you voted for Bernie. Because you're a centrist. In the middle. Who just happens to only criticize all things Left and jumps to defend any criticism of anything remotely Right.

If you were interfered by a "LMAO" and a "MMMmmmmmmkay," well I think that is your sign, buddy. Maybe not be so lit up by emojis and acronyms, and maybe don't read things that are not there. Your spiritual eyes are not serving you well.

[K Graham]

I don't think there's any mystery as to why Putin waited until after the Trump presidency to invade. Trump gave every opportunity for Putin to stage and get ready for an invasion. Then, as a campaign promise for a second term, he promised to withdraw the US from NATO. With UN unable to act because of Russia's Security Council veto and the U.S. out of the major military organization in the area, Putin would face little, if any, organized opposition. Trump would have sidelined the U.S.

Hey Res, wouldn't it seem to be an adequate punitive measure by the global community if Russia were to have their veto power stripped, or even maybe be kicked out of the UN? Is that feasible, or even possible?

[Res Ipsa]

I don't think there's any mystery as to why Putin waited until after the Trump presidency to invade. Trump gave every opportunity for Putin to stage and get ready for an invasion. Then, as a campaign promise for a second term, he promised to withdraw the US from NATO. With UN unable to act because of Russia's Security Council veto and the U.S. out of the major military organization in the area, Putin would face little, if any, organized opposition. Trump would have sidelined the U.S.

Hey Res, wouldn't it seem to be an adequate punitive measure by the global community if Russia were to have their veto power stripped, or even maybe be kicked out of the UN? Is that feasible, or even possible?

I don't know if that can even happen. I haven't looked at the Charter in ages. The veto was originally a feature, not a bug, in that the permanent security council members could never have their sovereignty interfered with against their will. Without it, I doubt the U.S. would have ever joined the U.N. And if it was done to Russia, I'm not sure the U.S. would stay in, as it could happen to us.

If the U.S. is going to be an effective peacekeeper, I think the veto would have to go. The permanent security council members could stay, with the temporary members rotating in and out. But removal of the veto would allow for more pressure one of the major powers like Russia that isn't possible today.

[Themis]

I don't think there's any mystery as to why Putin waited until after the Trump presidency to invade. Trump gave every opportunity for Putin to stage and get ready for an invasion. Then, as a campaign promise for a second term, he promised to withdraw the US from NATO. With UN unable to act because of Russia's Security Council veto and the U.S. out of the major military organization in the area, Putin would face little, if any, organized opposition. Trump would have sidelined the U.S.

I agree Putin was hoping for another Trump term that could bring down NATO and with it any real opposition to Russian expansion in eastern Europe. It didn't happen so now we see how quickly he is going after Ukraine. I suspect Putin will try and Get Trump to run again, since the destruction of NATO is one of his highest goals. Trump would be broke without Putin, so he owes him everything. He couldn't get a loan to save his little empire, so there is no way those Russian loans came without conditions.