I HEREBY STEP DOWN FOR NOW

[Res Ipsa]

I've looked at the numbers from a few sources (EIA, Statista, AGI), and all of them indicate that we imported about 3 times more oil than we exported each year under the Trump admin.

Doing some quick sloppy math of the energy potential of a ton of coal and how much we exported each year, that makes a decent dent, but doesn't make up for even half the gap. What significant type of energy export am I overlooking, that makes up for the approximate 1.5 billion barrels of oil energy gap each year under Trump?

Or am I just looking in the wrong place for exports/imports?

Maybe, but I think counting everything we were independent or close to it. I would think it factors in NG also. I read somewhere that we like Saudi oil because it is high in sulfur which is conducive with our refinery regulations. Let me know what you find I’ll look closer tonight.

Yes, it counts natural gas. Here are the EIA's definitions:

Crude oil is a mixture of hydrocarbons that exists as a liquid in underground geologic formations and remains a liquid when brought to the surface. Petroleum products are produced from the processing of crude oil and other liquids at petroleum refineries, from the extraction of liquid hydrocarbons at natural gas processing plants, and from the production of finished petroleum products at blending facilities. Petroleum is a broad category that includes both crude oil and petroleum products. The terms oil and petroleum are sometimes used interchangeably.

As long as we have to import crude oil, we aren't "energy independent." Here's a pretty good article that explains why we import crude oil. https://breakingenergy.com/2018/06/20/w ... xport-oil/

[Res Ipsa]

And to add to what Res, 'pakes, Honor, and probably somebody else is saying about oil, I will repeat; you can't be a net exporter of oil and be rooting for falling oil prices.

If you want complete oil independence so that you can have low oil prices for everyone, that's totally different. You have to be isolationist also, and not allow exporting, which will drive prices up. At that point, what you're saying is that you want communism.

Yes, right-wingers for communism is not just about Putin / dictator envy.

I'd tell certain people to "think it through" but that won't work without a basic education in economics, which isn't ever going to happen for 3 individuals in particular on this board.

Good point, Dean Robbers. For "energy independence" to result in lower oil prices, the U.S. government would have to use the coercive power of the state to order petroleum producers to sell to Americans, even though they could make more money by exporting their products. So Markk gets to be "free" from higher prices through Big Government taking away the freedom of others.

[Chap]

For "energy independence" to result in lower oil prices, the U.S. government would have to use the coercive power of the state to order petroleum producers to sell to Americans, even though they could make more money by exporting their products.

Precisely. We have exactly the same situation in the UK, where some Conservative politicians are urging that more licences should give given for oil and natural gas drilling in the North Sea, and for the restarting of fracking on land, 'because that will lower prices for UK consumers and give us energy independence'.

They are, of course, either stupid or lying. Those licenses, if granted, will go to private companies who are under no obligation to sell to UK consumers at all. They will simply sell into the world market, and the effect on prices in the UK will be zero or negligible.

Since the Conservatives are currently in power in the UK, I'm not sure whether I would prefer them to be stupid, or lying. But one or the other it has to be,

[Markk]

Res,

You did not answer my question as to whether of not you have solar, an electric car, or a all electric home?

Thanks

[Chap]

Res,

You did not answer my question as to whether of not you have solar, an electric car, or a all electric home?

Thanks

"Please can we run down a rabbit-hole rather than continuing this discussion, in which I am beginning to feel uncomfortable?"

The personal affairs of a given poster are not relevant to a discussion of what policies are in the national interest.

[Snazzip]

I've looked at the numbers from a few sources (EIA, Statista, AGI), and all of them indicate that we imported about 3 times more oil than we exported each year under the Trump admin.

Doing some quick sloppy math of the energy potential of a ton of coal and how much we exported each year, that makes a decent dent, but doesn't make up for even half the gap. What significant type of energy export am I overlooking, that makes up for the approximate 1.5 billion barrels of oil energy gap each year under Trump?

Or am I just looking in the wrong place for exports/imports?

Maybe, but I think counting everything we were independent or close to it. I would think it factors in NG also. I read somewhere that we like Saudi oil because it is high in sulfur which is conducive with our refinery regulations. Let me know what you find I’ll look closer tonight.

"I made stuff up, and was shown to be wrong, but that doesn't matter, because I'm right, because I say so."

[Res Ipsa]

Res,

You did not answer my question as to whether of not you have solar, an electric car, or a all electric home?

Thanks

It's a worn out, trite red herring.

I''ve been driving a high MPG hybrid for going on 20 years. When I next need to buy a vehicle, it will be electric. I won't own another ICE vehicle for the rest of my life. I've worked out of my home for even longer. When I commute to my downtown office, I do so entirely using public transportation. I've changed out my old, aluminum framed windows for more energy efficient windows as a I can afford it. (Almost done...). When I replace light bulbs, I do it with the most energy efficient models available. I haven't flown anywhere for decades, and I doubt I'll do it again. I don't take vacations to far away locations. When it's time to replace the gas furnace my house came with, I'll replace it with electric. Same with the hot water heater. Last I checked, solar panels on my roof made no sense given where I live and the location of my home.

Is that enough virtue signaling for you? Do I pass Markk's silly purity test?

To the extent the government takes action to transition away from fossil fuels, I'll be subject to that action the same as everybody else. This notion that to argue for change in society requires one not to be a part of society is dumber than dumb.

[canpakes]

Res,

You did not answer my question as to whether of not you have solar, an electric car, or a all electric home?

Thanks

Markk, help out America, and ditch your truck. Most of the time, it’s only hauling you around, so get something smaller and more fuel efficient. Small cars can haul stuff, too.



Be a patriot, already. : D

[Markk]

Res,

You did not answer my question as to whether of not you have solar, an electric car, or a all electric home?

Thanks

It's a worn out, trite red herring.

I''ve been driving a high MPG hybrid for going on 20 years. When I next need to buy a vehicle, it will be electric. I won't own another ICE vehicle for the rest of my life. I've worked out of my home for even longer. When I commute to my downtown office, I do so entirely using public transportation. I've changed out my old, aluminum framed windows for more energy efficient windows as a I can afford it. (Almost done...). When I replace light bulbs, I do it with the most energy efficient models available. I haven't flown anywhere for decades, and I doubt I'll do it again. I don't take vacations to far away locations. When it's time to replace the gas furnace my house came with, I'll replace it with electric. Same with the hot water heater. Last I checked, solar panels on my roof made no sense given where I live and the location of my home.

Is that enough virtue signaling for you? Do I pass Markk's silly purity test?

To the extent the government takes action to transition away from fossil fuels, I'll be subject to that action the same as everybody else. This notion that to argue for change in society requires one not to be a part of society is dumber than dumb.

Why are you getting so butt hurt? This is just a conversation. I wanted to know so I can point out what it might cost you personally to upgrade, and just how “not easy” it is for most Americans. Also most folks can’t work at home, especially those in manufacturing and service. You can probably afford to do so, but most home owners can’t, they are struggling to just pay crazy high mortgages. I also want to point out what has to happen for a world to turn from oil and gas, to as you put it, earth and wind.

What state do you live in? How many amps is your house panel? You said you have a gas furnace…can I assume you have a gas range, water heater, and gas dryer. Do you have a pool or spa that is either electric of gas? Is your roof comp shingles, shake, or other? Do you have a plywood substrate for your roofing, or strip or skip sheathing? Does your line voltage to your house come in overhead, or underground. Do you have auto sensors in your rest rooms and kitchen, A/B switching and/or LED lights?

Again these are among the things one must factor if they ar to go full board electric. Don’t get so upset these are all fair questions, and while I am not a estimator, I do a great deal of estimating above and beyond my construction management duties, so cost I throw out will be real close, although they would be based on California’s inflated costs, so you could probably cut 20% off if you life in the midwest of south.

And FYI I drive a small 4 cylinder Colorado daily (company truck). My personal truck is a 09 Tacoma with a 4 Cylinder manual, with a lumber rack, and my wife drives a Camry. I let go my big trucks years ago. I also put new windows on my house and blew more insulation in my attic. And am almost all LED through out. Point being just because I am conservative, does not mean I don’t care about the environment.

[Markk]

Res,

You did not answer my question as to whether of not you have solar, an electric car, or a all electric home?

Thanks

Markk, help out America, and ditch your truck. Most of the time, it’s only hauling you around, so get something smaller and more fuel efficient. Small cars can haul stuff, too.



Be a patriot, already. : D

LOL…reminds me when I was getting into construction, before I got a truck. I had a 68 “rambler classic“ that was maybe wider than it was long… that pic is not too far off of some dumb but necessary things i had to do. Funny thing is that I got it from a uncle and it had a sticker on the rear window that said LDS, and I sported it proudly.