Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Res Ipsa]

It would sure be nice to punish Putin and not let him get even one damn thing short of a noose out of his adventure in mass murder. It would probably even save many lives in the future by making future despots think twice.

How many Ukrainian lives is that worth in the present? I don't think that's for anyone to decide but the people who are living those lives. Maybe they've done enough now already, and suffered enough, and they can step back and pass the torch to someone else. If they do, no-one else is in a position to blame them.

I agree. The most significant cost of Russia's actions is being paid by Ukrainian people. I think they should get to make the decision whether it is "worth it" to keep fighting. I think the international community, including the U.S., should support them. But also think the rest of us should be careful not to take that decision out of their hands.

[Chap]

I suspect that for historical reasons, it may be less easy for Americans than for most Europeans to grasp how Ukrainians feel at the moment, so I'd just like to underline something here.

Basically, they only have one Ukraine to be Ukrainians in. They lose that to a man who doesn't even believe that Ukraine is a real place, and they have lost pretty well everything, including themselves. That is a real and urgent threat. Under those circumstances, resisting so long as any of them can stand is not something to deliberate about for the immense majority of Ukrainians: you have to do it, like you have to keep breathing.

[Jersey Girl]

I suspect that for historical reasons, it may be less easy for Americans than for most Europeans to grasp how Ukrainians feel at the moment, so I'd just like to underline something here.

Basically, they only have one Ukraine to be Ukrainians in. They lose that to a man who doesn't even believe that Ukraine is a real place, and they have lost pretty well everything, including themselves. That is a real and urgent threat. Under those circumstances, resisting so long as any of them can stand is not something to deliberate about for the immense majority of Ukrainians: you have to do it, like you have to keep breathing.

How does it feel from your part of the world?

[Chap]

How does it feel from your part of the world?

"My part of the world" is for personal reasons a little more broadly defined than it is for many people.

But the sense that Putin is a bad guy whom it would be dangerous to let win (again!) is quite widespread. Putin has managed to get a lot of people feeling that the prospect of a large, well funded and (characteristically) well organised German army is comforting rather than the reverse. And it is a very, very long time since anybody felt like that.

[doubtingthomas]

I agree. The most significant cost of Russia's actions is being paid by Ukrainian people. I think they should get to make the decision whether it is "worth it" to keep fighting.

Not worth it, as I said when the war started. Unfortunately, Ukrainians are not able to think rationally right now, they only have the instinct to fight. We humans evolved to be in tribes and to fight invaders.

[Jersey Girl]

I agree. The most significant cost of Russia's actions is being paid by Ukrainian people. I think they should get to make the decision whether it is "worth it" to keep fighting.

Not worth it, as I said when the war started. Unfortunately, Ukrainians are not able to think rationally right now, they only have the instinct to fight. We humans evolved to be in tribes and to fight invaders.

I don't see how you think they are irrational right now. I think they are laser focused and have been preparing before the war actually began.

[doubtingthomas]

I don't see how you think they are irrational right now.

I don't expect them to think clearly. We humans did not evolve to be rational, we evolved to attack invaders. Ukrainians must be desperate right now, they don't have the time to think. They are in a very tough situation.

[Jersey Girl]

How does it feel from your part of the world?

"My part of the world" is for personal reasons a little more broadly defined than it is for many people.

But the sense that Putin is a bad guy whom it would be dangerous to let win (again!) is quite widespread. Putin has managed to get a lot of people feeling that the prospect of a large, well funded and (characteristically) well organised German army is comforting rather than the reverse. And it is a very, very long time since anybody felt like that.

Thank you, Chap.

[Jersey Girl]

This video doesn't even begin to touch on the terror and subsequent trauma of refugee children. I'm selfishly posting this because it does my own heart good to do so. Twelve year old Elizabeth is Down the Shore in Monmouth County. Same county as I am from. Blessings for this child for all she's been through. I hope she can go home one day. I know that nothing can replace the home she has left. I hope she can heal and assimilate as best she can with plenty of support from family, counselors, clergy from the Eastern Orthodox churches if that is her preference, and new friends she's making in Jersey. I'm happy she's in a state where she can find Ukrainian community and culture nearby.

I hope she can feel safe.

12-Year-Old Ukrainian Refugee Gets Warm Welcome From New Classmates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiPk3f_0I04

Just over 3 minutes.

[Jersey Girl]

"We need tanks, warplanes, artillery… Freedom has to be armed no worse than tyranny.” ~ Zelensky 3/30/2022