Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

[Marcus]

You keep ignoring what MG is pointing out, that you are not offering me any better alternative? All you want to do is be negative and name-call, Straw Man, and Poison the Well, anyone who does not accept your particular far-left extremist ideology.

If you consider yourself part of a political philosophy that encourages empathy, it's odd that you are so very unempathetic.

Par for the course. You can probably tell, Lemmie/Marcus and I have had a few scraps along the way. But we have reached a kinder/gentler DMZ.

She/he/they does have a way with twisting words into an almost tortured looking caricature of what was actually being presented/said. But if you can get past that, she/he/they/??? is actually quite a good conversationalist.

My experience tells me that she/he/they seems to have some form of emotional ‘numbness’ of some sort that disallows her/him/them to fully empathize or understand those that are not on the same page as she/he/they are. An almost nihilistic sort of vibe.

Childhood trauma? I don’t know. But something has always been off. Especially if Marcus is indeed Lemmie of old. There’s something weird there. But as I said, I’m willing to be corrected if they are not one and the same…now different?…person(s).

Lemmie/Marcus, you know you could clear up this confusing dilemma of how to address your gender preference.

And I do have a serious question for you.

Are you sexist? If not, are you able to explain why? Are your feelings of respect/admiration on equal footing with regards to both men and women?

This is important because you seem to have taken upon yourself to make pronouncements on others as to their sexism or lack thereof. What gives you the understanding/maturity to do that? You seem to have a good deal of confidence in your judgement calls of others and their ‘sexist ways’.

Regards,
MG

Mentalgymnast, you have always come here looking for someone to attack. You don’t ask questions like this in good faith so there’s no point in addressing them. Your passive-aggressive speculations always describe you more than anyone you are attacking, so go ahead, tell us more about yourself.

[Marcus]

What is the difference between the “heroes” you grew up with and “feminine heroes”?

Do you see the emergence of a female “hero” as an “attack” on a male “hero”?

I feel like you're going to misrepresent me no matter what I have to say but I will try to explain. As a kid there was He-Man but then there was She-Ra. I had no problem with She-Ra. After all, he-man had to marry someone, right? Just kidding, I couldn't resist that joke. Point is there was never an episode where he-man becomes a loser and the entire cartoon franchise is taken over by She-ra. She-ra had her show and he-man had his show. no, the female hero is not a problem obviously. Just as the female god is not a problem. The movie Aliens is still one of my favorite movies of all time with a clearly aggressive female taking the lead. What I am referring to as I already covered in my initial post which seems to be ignored over and over again, is that Heroes like Luke Skywalker are needed to be diminished into grumpy old losers who are attempted murders in order to bolster the female character that essentially
replaces Luke Skywalker and does not go through the hero's journey but is all of a sudden magically becomes a superhero female without any real character development and training as Luke Skywalker went through. I also referred to the killing off of John Connor and the blatant admittance in the script that it is replacing the male savior/hero with a female savior….

Wow. That is a fascinating glimpse into a mind such as yours.

My point was just that heroes are heroes, whatever gender they are. Defining them as “heroes” and “feminine heroes” underscores the sexism.

Additionally, this idea you have that female characters don’t go through character development, training, or a ‘hero’s journey’ doesn’t really match the story lines you discussed, or any story lines currently being told. Your petulance that female characters ‘replace’ male characters when their story is told is just more evidence of the imbalance you think is required. Try just thinking of people as people.

[Free Ranger]

I feel like you're going to misrepresent me no matter what I have to say but I will try to explain. As a kid there was He-Man but then there was She-Ra. I had no problem with She-Ra. After all, he-man had to marry someone, right? Just kidding, I couldn't resist that joke. Point is there was never an episode where he-man becomes a loser and the entire cartoon franchise is taken over by She-ra. She-ra had her show and he-man had his show. no, the female hero is not a problem obviously. Just as the female god is not a problem. The movie Aliens is still one of my favorite movies of all time with a clearly aggressive female taking the lead. What I am referring to as I already covered in my initial post which seems to be ignored over and over again, is that Heroes like Luke Skywalker are needed to be diminished into grumpy old losers who are attempted murders in order to bolster the female character that essentially
replaces Luke Skywalker and does not go through the hero's journey but is all of a sudden magically becomes a superhero female without any real character development and training as Luke Skywalker went through. I also referred to the killing off of John Connor and the blatant admittance in the script that it is replacing the male savior/hero with a female savior….

Wow. That is a fascinating glimpse into a mind such as yours.

My point was just that heroes are heroes, whatever gender they are. Defining them as “heroes” and “feminine heroes” underscores the sexism.

Additionally, this idea you have that female characters don’t go through character development, training, or a ‘hero’s journey’ doesn’t really match the story lines you discussed, or any story lines currently being told. Your petulance that female characters ‘replace’ male characters when their story is told is just more evidence of the imbalance you think is required. Try just thinking of people as people.

This is a waste of energy. I could have the female YouTuber who helped me realize these things talk to you and you would roll your eyes and further be in denial. The fact that you would nitpick a simple kind of typo on my part where I said heroes and feminine Heroes instead of saying masculine heroes and feminine heroes, and then acting like you're a expert psychologist in claiming that proves my unconscious sexism is just total insanity. To be honest you are reminding me of conversations I've had with narcissists, which are never pleasant. They misrepresent you, deflect, and gaslight and give you a headache. It just shows that you are a knick picking kind of person, who pigeonholes people and only sees what they want to see. You are not interested in an actual dialogue and exchange of ideas. You're just feeling really self-righteous in that right now you're claiming to "challenge" the patriarchy when what your really doing is giving yourself an excuse to act like a jerk and getting off on trying to insult someone you disagree with and disparaging their thoughts and opinions any chance you get. You are the kind of person that in real life is, I would say, is probably not a good person.

[Note that I wrote the above and then went back to review the thread and saw that MG pointed out your lack of empathy and numbness. Wise minds think alike.]

[Marcus]

…. I'm not going to bore anybody by giving an evolutionary explanation for the importance of male heroes, but I do think it's important and I do think that Woke culture is trying to attack the male hero archetypal as I covered in my initial post. I know that the Woke crowd will gleefully mock this, but watching the Rocky 4 movies at a young age motivated me to start exercising and get in shape; which did wonders for my self-esteem as a youth. The rocky character was in many ways the equivalent of a Greek god which inspired me on an unconscious level just as the Greek gods motivated Greek men….

And what motivated the girls at that young age? Was there an equivalent inspiration?

Right now, in many television and movies there is not the mere bolstering of the female and female empowerment but the simultaneous devaluing of masculinity in many cases. In other words, there is an anti-masculine cultural mythology going on that is not inspiring at all. A lot of the heroes I grew up with are being attacked and replaced by feminine Heroes. Rather than Hollywood producing their own new mythologies and new superheroes they are in my view systematically undermining the male hero archetype in order to undermine Life-driven hierarchy and promote a more anti-masculine ideology.

This mindset you have that female role models are “attacking,” “systematically undermining,” and “replacing” male role models is untrue. Adding additional role models so that all children have someone to look up to, instead of only having male role models (such as your Rocky example) is a good thing. Your lament that you are being attacked is a scenario only in your sexist mindset, and doesn’t reflect the good being done in our society by having both male and female role models.

[MG 2.0]

Par for the course. You can probably tell, Lemmie/Marcus and I have had a few scraps along the way. But we have reached a kinder/gentler DMZ.

She/he/they does have a way with twisting words into an almost tortured looking caricature of what was actually being presented/said. But if you can get past that, she/he/they/??? is actually quite a good conversationalist.

My experience tells me that she/he/they seems to have some form of emotional ‘numbness’ of some sort that disallows her/him/them to fully empathize or understand those that are not on the same page as she/he/they are. An almost nihilistic sort of vibe.

Childhood trauma? I don’t know. But something has always been off. Especially if Marcus is indeed Lemmie of old. There’s something weird there. But as I said, I’m willing to be corrected if they are not one and the same…now different?…person(s).

Lemmie/Marcus, you know you could clear up this confusing dilemma of how to address your gender preference.

And I do have a serious question for you.

Are you sexist? If not, are you able to explain why? Are your feelings of respect/admiration on equal footing with regards to both men and women?

This is important because you seem to have taken upon yourself to make pronouncements on others as to their sexism or lack thereof. What gives you the understanding/maturity to do that? You seem to have a good deal of confidence in your judgement calls of others and their ‘sexist ways’.

Regards,
MG

Mentalgymnast, you have always come here looking for someone to attack. You don’t ask questions like this in good faith so there’s no point in addressing them. Your passive-aggressive speculations always describe you more than anyone you are attacking, so go ahead, tell us more about yourself.

Sure. I’m a heterosexual male. I was born a biological male and have always had inclinations towards feeling love and attraction towards what I would call the opposite sex. That is, biological females that identify as such. I am a ‘he’ and ‘him’ as I identify myself with personal pronouns. I am not passive aggressive. If I have feelings of either disgust, love, anger, etc., I am not afraid or unwilling to share those feelings when appropriate. I don’t believe that I am sexist. In fact, in many ways I have come to the point where I think that women, that is, biological females who identify as such, are naturally gifted in many ways that men are not.

I have always and will continue to identify as a white biological male who identifies as a gender male also. I am a man. Anyone who would respect my wishes will address me as a male. A man. He/him.

OK.

Your turn.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Wow. That is a fascinating glimpse into a mind such as yours.

My point was just that heroes are heroes, whatever gender they are. Defining them as “heroes” and “feminine heroes” underscores the sexism.

Additionally, this idea you have that female characters don’t go through character development, training, or a ‘hero’s journey’ doesn’t really match the story lines you discussed, or any story lines currently being told. Your petulance that female characters ‘replace’ male characters when their story is told is just more evidence of the imbalance you think is required. Try just thinking of people as people.

This is a waste of energy. I could have the female YouTuber who helped me realize these things talk to you and you would roll your eyes and further be in denial. The fact that you would nitpick a simple kind of typo on my part where I said heroes and feminine Heroes instead of saying masculine heroes and feminine heroes, and then acting like you're a expert psychologist in claiming that proves my unconscious sexism is just total insanity. To be honest you are reminding me of conversations I've had with narcissists, which are never pleasant. They misrepresent you, deflect, and gaslight and give you a headache. It just shows that you are a knick picking kind of person, who pigeonholes people and only sees what they want to see. You are not interested in an actual dialogue and exchange of ideas. You're just feeling really self-righteous in that right now you're claiming to "challenge" the patriarchy when what your really doing is giving yourself an excuse to act like a jerk and getting off on trying to insult someone you disagree with and disparaging their thoughts and opinions any chance you get. You are the kind of person that in real life is, I would say, is probably not a good person.

I have no doubt you think that. It explains a lot about you.

By the way, referring to “heroes” and “feminine heroes” is not a simple typo. It is an indicator of your sexist mindset, which you have illustrated multiple times now. Moving on.

[Res Ipsa]

Welcome, free ranger.

There’s lots packed into your OP, but the most important thing I have to say is, if Mormonism floats your boat, there’s nothing wrong with being a Mormon. Even if it’s just for the culture and not the religion.

But, I have to say that I just don’t buy the biology is destiny bit. If you find a woman who wants a Viking, be a Viking. But I wouldn’t try being a Viking before you know what she wants. Based on my experience, women are people with an incredibly broad range of personalities. The notion that they all want the same thing in a partner flies in the face of my experience.

Maybe you should try giving the TV a rest. It isn’t programmed to mirror real life. It’s programmed to get eyeballs on the screen and sell Pepsi and Chevy trucks. I haven’t ever felt disrespected by TV. But then I don’t expect validation from TV. I’m pretty comfortable in my own skin and don’t feel threatened by whichever wave of feminism we’re on.

Maybe a patriarchy works for you. It doesn’t for me. It seems crazy to me to disqualify half the human population from leadership positions on the basis of genetilia. In s couple generations, my profession has gone from almost entirely male to much more balanced, and I think the profession is better for it.

So, if you thrive on patriarchy, go find one and thrive. Just don’t try to impose it on me.

[Free Ranger]

Welcome, free ranger.

There’s lots packed into your OP, but the most important thing I have to say is, if Mormonism floats your boat, there’s nothing wrong with being a Mormon. Even if it’s just for the culture and not the religion.

But, I have to say that I just don’t buy the biology is destiny bit. If you find a woman who wants a Viking, be a Viking. But I wouldn’t try being a Viking before you know what she wants. Based on my experience, women are people with an incredibly broad range of personalities. The notion that they all want the same thing in a partner flies in the face of my experience.

Maybe you should try giving the TV a rest. It isn’t programmed to mirror real life. It’s programmed to get eyeballs on the screen and sell Pepsi and Chevy trucks. I haven’t ever felt disrespected by TV. But then I don’t expect validation from TV. I’m pretty comfortable in my own skin and don’t feel threatened by whichever wave of feminism we’re on.

Maybe a patriarchy works for you. It doesn’t for me. It seems crazy to me to disqualify half the human population from leadership positions on the basis of genetilia. In s couple generations, my profession has gone from almost entirely male to much more balanced, and I think the profession is better for it.

So, if you thrive on patriarchy, go find one and thrive. Just don’t try to impose it on me.

Res Ipsa, thanks for being cordial while disagreeing with me. I don't know why other people can't be more civil.

I totally agree with what you said about the Viking bit. I actually had my DNA done and I'm actually around 50% Swedish with some Iceland and thus Viking; but I don't act like a medieval Viking, trust me. I wouldn't even know how to be a berserker without laughing at myself. I am tall and blue eyed and pale skin and fairly strong winning weightlifting competitions in my youth (thanks to my ancestors) but I'm actually like I said high on empathy.

The point I was making in my initial post is that the TV show Euphoria in general presents a Leftist ideology yet in that one episode the screenwriters couldn't help themselves in pointing out the silliness of Wokeism and it's contradiction between the socially constructed ideal and the actual biology of the woman. If you read Nancy Friday's book on women's fantasies you will see that most women are not really attracted to the men of the Woke ideology that says how men should be and act.

To be clear, I agree with you that every woman is different and they want different things romantically. As I said, I am high in empathy (and intuitiveness), and I've never had any complaints from women and no that is not me bragging on my physicality in the bedroom, it is me referring to my thoughtful, sentimental and poetic side.

So the biology bit of it I am pointing out is that women are biologically attracted to certain masculine traits. This is not my opinion, this is what all the science shows. If you want I will go into more detail of all that I have learned on the subject. This does not mean that women want a total jerk, it just means that they want certain masculine traits that are biologically embedded in them from millions of years of evolution. The same is true of me as a man, there are certain feminine traits that I am biologically designed to find attractive. This is really not in dispute objectively according to science.

So the reason I brought up the TV show is because the TV show itself was pointing out this contradiction between what this character Kat actually biologically wants as revealed in her sex fantasy (which I admit is probably clearly meant as a hyperbolic scenario yet true on a deeper level), in contrast to the "nice guy" her boyfriend is, which bores the crap out of her.

You're probably right that I currently watch too much TV. We all have our vices. I'm undergoing recuperation from a shoulder injury so I can't go to the gym currently and thus have more time on my hands.

Regarding me being "for patriarchy," my view is actually a little more nuanced. Like I said, one my favorite movie is Aliens with a strong female lead. I am not intimidated by strong women. I just don't like the Woke cult doing what it is doing. I also would have no problem with Mormon women getting the priesthood but to be honest I'm not bothered by women not having the priesthood either. I haven't thought the issue all the way through but it seems to me like a kind of trade-off which I can explore if you want. The main reason I'm not bothered by issues like that, is that I really started questioning my Liberal positions I had in the 1990s and early 2000s. It was actually Nietzsche, who is heralded by the Liberal professors, that actually made me more Conservative and more respectful of male hierarchy which we see in all the ape species and we are apes. I began to realize reading Nietzsche that when you take a cold hard realistic look at reality, Life itself is hierarchical and mostly patriarchal with a few matriarchal exceptions like the bonobos. I also began to realize that during my exMormon atheist phase which eventually, through my reductionism, led me into nihilism, I realized that the progressivism I was imbibing was doing nothing for me as a masculine male. It just led me into a bland passivity and existential depression in many ways. So I got to thank Nietzsche in many ways for kind of giving me a spark in my ass in a way, it's hard to explain and put into words as a man to explain it but he really did effectively call me out of pessimistic nihilism and unmotivating progressivism and into a more optimistic nihilism with more masculine vitality and then this led me toward seeing the artistic value and vitality of religious humanism, specifically Christian humanism which then led to me thinking of reassessing Mormonism.

[Free Ranger]

This is a waste of energy. I could have the female YouTuber who helped me realize these things talk to you and you would roll your eyes and further be in denial. The fact that you would nitpick a simple kind of typo on my part where I said heroes and feminine Heroes instead of saying masculine heroes and feminine heroes, and then acting like you're a expert psychologist in claiming that proves my unconscious sexism is just total insanity. To be honest you are reminding me of conversations I've had with narcissists, which are never pleasant. They misrepresent you, deflect, and gaslight and give you a headache. It just shows that you are a knick picking kind of person, who pigeonholes people and only sees what they want to see. You are not interested in an actual dialogue and exchange of ideas. You're just feeling really self-righteous in that right now you're claiming to "challenge" the patriarchy when what your really doing is giving yourself an excuse to act like a jerk and getting off on trying to insult someone you disagree with and disparaging their thoughts and opinions any chance you get. You are the kind of person that in real life is, I would say, is probably not a good person.

I have no doubt you think that. It explains a lot about you.

By the way, referring to “heroes” and “feminine heroes” is not a simple typo. It is an indicator of your sexist mindset, which you have illustrated multiple times now. Moving on.

Yeah I'm moving on, I'm not talking to you anymore. I literally think you are crazy or mentally unstable, ... clearly narcissistic. If anyone reading your words can't see the problem in what you're saying after carefully reading what I actually say then I'm not worried what people think of me at this point based on your caricatures and straw manning of me and other things you do. I've dealt with too many narcissists like you too think it does any good to continue talking to you. You lack empathy and have no higher ethical standard to abide by, no civility. So go ahead and create your straw men and paint me as what I am not, have at it hoss.

[Marcus]

By the way, referring to “heroes” and “feminine heroes” is not a simple typo. It is an indicator of your sexist mindset, which you have illustrated multiple times now. Moving on.

…. If anyone reading your words can't see the problem in what you're saying after carefully reading what I actually say…

Carefully reading the sexism offered by free range doesn’t fix it.

Maybe a patriarchy works for you. It doesn’t for me. It seems crazy to me to disqualify half the human population from leadership positions on the basis of genetilia. In s couple generations, my profession has gone from almost entirely male to much more balanced, and I think the profession is better for it.

So, if you thrive on patriarchy, go find one and thrive. Just don’t try to impose it on me.

Same in my profession. If the patriarchal assumptions stated in this thread showed up there, it would end with a visit from Human Resources. Those things really don’t fly in the real world anymore.