Church membership numbers not good.

[Marcus]

The raw missionary numbers should fall further off the cliff in 2026-27 or so as 18 year olds born (or should I say not born) after the 2008 Great Recession and subsequent birth rate declines that have continued to this day take affect.

https://www.marchofdimes.org/peristats/ ... =1&sreg=49

Utah birth rates per 1k women aged 15-44 fell ~25% between 2010 and 2020 (covid will probably have taken another bite out of the birth rate, just waiting on numbers to back that up). Idaho (and the rest of the US) had similar birth rate declines. Between 2007 and 2021 the United States had 700k fewer raw births (4.3 million to 3.6 million) which seems to be a demographic ship that won't be stopped at this point as it becomes a norm to have 1-2 children for all families. The only thing keeping American population growing is immigration. I guess foreign missionaries could pick up the slack but Utah and Idaho are the heart of the church and simply put people everywhere are having fewer babies for many reasons. I guess the LDS church can thank it's lucky stars that their members always live to be 110.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... %80%932021.

Wow. I didn’t realize but excellent point.

[MsJack]

…all this feminist feminine empowerment is B.S.; the problem is not "the patriarchy," and you're not really a "bad bitch"; and getting in touch with your inner "feminine warrior" and slaying alleged "toxic masculinity" is bulshit. In the real world women are biologically designed through millions of years of evolution and the self-help cult of feminizing Wokeism isn't going to change that….

I thought I knew what I wanted in life, but now that a Jordan Peterson devotee has explained it to me, I see the error of my ways.

BRB. Gonna hand in my jiu jitsu blue belt, resign from working for law enforcement, quit my PhD program, and see if I can get my husband to put another baby in me before it's too late.

[Marcus]

I thought I knew what I wanted in life, but now that a Jordan Peterson devotee has explained it to me, I see the error of my ways.

BRB. Gonna hand in my jiu jitsu blue belt, resign from working for law enforcement, quit my PhD program, and see if I can get my husband to put another baby in me before it's too late.

[Bond]

The raw missionary numbers should fall further off the cliff in 2026-27 or so as 18 year olds born (or should I say not born) after the 2008 Great Recession and subsequent birth rate declines that have continued to this day take affect.

https://www.marchofdimes.org/peristats/ ... =1&sreg=49

Utah birth rates per 1k women aged 15-44 fell ~25% between 2010 and 2020 (covid will probably have taken another bite out of the birth rate, just waiting on numbers to back that up). Idaho (and the rest of the US) had similar birth rate declines. Between 2007 and 2021 the United States had 700k fewer raw births (4.3 million to 3.6 million) which seems to be a demographic ship that won't be stopped at this point as it becomes a norm to have 1-2 children for all families. The only thing keeping American population growing is immigration. I guess foreign missionaries could pick up the slack but Utah and Idaho are the heart of the church and simply put people everywhere are having fewer babies for many reasons. I guess the LDS church can thank it's lucky stars that their members always live to be 110.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... %80%932021.

Wow. I didn’t realize but excellent point.

This is the data I point to when people (read Boomers) complain that "no one wants to work anymore". There literally are fewer people to work service jobs while tens of millions of retirees continue to consume. The birth rate/1000 is less than 1/2 what it was in the 50s. Bring on the automation and the self payment.

[drumdude]

I thought I knew what I wanted in life, but now that a Jordan Peterson devotee has explained it to me, I see the error of my ways.

BRB. Gonna hand in my jiu jitsu blue belt, resign from working for law enforcement, quit my PhD program, and see if I can get my husband to put another baby in me before it's too late.

[Chap]

Preferable:
1.Worthy to be chosen before something else
2.Better than some other option.
3.Having greater value.

Unfortunately, if something is not true it cannot be any of those things you list.

[...]

If Mormonism IS true, that’s icing on the cake.

Regards,
MG

Please can an exmormon poster on this board help me here? I would like someone who understands where MG is coming from to explain his attitude to me.

I have put it to him directly that if the truth claims of the CoJCoLDS are not true, then that is not compensated for by any alleged benefits from acting as if they were true. So far as I understand him, his response amounts to saying that the truth of the claims of the CoJCoLDS is purely an optional extra that can be dispensed with if there are other reasons for acting as though they were true.

When I was a practicing believer in one of the major traditions of western Christianity, I maintained that status because I thought that the teachings of that religion were true, even if some of them were not easy for me to live with. When I ceased (after a certain amount of historical investigation) to believe they were true, I ceased my allegiance and left the church in question.

Truth comes first for me. Can someone please give me a sympathetic explanation of how it can be that MG thinks otherwise?

[IHAQ]

Please can an exmormon poster on this board help me here? I would like someone who understands where MG is coming from to explain his attitude to me.

I have put it to him directly that if the truth claims of the CoJCoLDS are not true, then that is not compensated for by any alleged benefits from acting as if they were true. So far as I understand him, his response amounts to saying that the truth of the claims of the CoJCoLDS is purely an optional extra that can be dispensed with if there are other reasons for acting as though they were true.

When I was a practicing believer in one of the major traditions of western Christianity, I maintained that status because I thought that the teachings of that religion were true, even if some of them were not easy for me to live with. When I ceased (after a certain amount of historical investigation) to believe they were true, I ceased my allegiance and left the church in question.

Truth comes first for me. Can someone please give me a sympathetic explanation of how it can be that MG thinks otherwise?

The position is one that gets trotted out by believers when they realise their other arguments for the veracity of the church’s truth claims are untenable. The gist is that living as a Mormon is a great way to live even if the claims aren’t true. A parallel might be that living as a vegan is a great way to live even if the claimed health benefits of veganism aren’t true.

Within a discussion about Mormonism it’s tantamount to a tantrum and saying “yeah, but you stink”, as a way of ending the debate. In reality it’s actually an admission that the truth claims of the church don’t stand up to scrutiny, so the “believer” has to find some way of dealing with the cognitive dissonance. “It’s a great way to live” is how they quieten the voices and avoid answering meaningful questions to keep their testimony in tact. It’s a gambler justifying their addiction by pointing out their wins as a way of avoiding explaining their losses.

The person MG is trying to convince about Mormonism in your debate with him about it truth claims isn’t you. It’s himself.

[Chap]

... The person MG is trying to convince about Mormonism in your debate with him about it truth claims isn’t you. It’s himself.

Thank you for your explanation: that makes sense to me, and it is also consistent with what I have seen of MG's posting style on both this and the preceding version of the board.

It's like "Look, I go into the lion's den and engage all those apostates and unbelievers on their own ground. But I still have my testimony. So The Church Is True."

I forgot to add a smiley. So here it is, just for authenticity:

[Moksha]

The practice of handing out a gold-colored vuvuzela, on the occasion of each soccer baptism in Africa, could be the winning strategy that boosts numbers back up.

[Rivendale]

The gist is that living as a Mormon is a great way to live even if the claims aren’t true. A parallel might be that living as a vegan is a great way to live even if the claimed health benefits of veganism aren’t true.

Mafia boss's wife reasoning.