State of the Pandemic

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related. No insults or personal attacks allowed. Rated G.
Post Reply
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 10555
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by Res Ipsa »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:00 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:33 am


What does the Surgeon General have to do with the CDC?

Under the direction of the United States Department of Health and Human Services are:

The Surgeon General. The leading spokesperson on matters of public health in the federal government of the United States. The surgeon general also has many informal duties, such as educating the American public about health issues and advocating healthy lifestyle choices.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The national public health agency of the United States.

The Surgeon General, despite popular misconceptions, is not just the guy who tells you not to smoke cigarettes. For example in July 1994, the Office of the Surgeon General authorized the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to serve as lead agency for preparing the first Surgeon General's report on physical activity and health.

https://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/sgr/intro.htm

The more you know...
So, the answer is that they are separate agencies. The Surgeon General does not represent the CDC. He heads a separate organization.

The more you know.
he/him
When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig’d to call for the help of the Civil Power, ’tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.

Benjamin Franklin
Hawkeye
2nd Counselor
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:37 pm

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by Hawkeye »

I watched the WHO practically beg countries not to resort to lockdowns and to concentrate instead on cutting off the chains of transmission through testing, tracing, isolating and quarantining.
Do you remember EAllusion telling me that I had blood on my hands for going to work? Laura Ingraham confirmed again last night that the survival rate of COVID is 99.97% for people under 70 yoa and I'm sure many of those are not young healthy people with everything to live for but rather very sick people with other comorbidities. As you have admitted, much of the inflation, the recession, and gasoline prices we're suffering under now is due to the COVID response. Some of it Biden made worse by trying to squeeze in communist programs under the euphemism "infrastructure." But most of the stagflation, recession, etc is due to the COVID response, a response for a disease that has a 99.97% survival rate for people under 70!
Last edited by Hawkeye on Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
Veritas
drumdude
God
Posts: 6418
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by drumdude »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:43 am
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:00 am


Under the direction of the United States Department of Health and Human Services are:

The Surgeon General. The leading spokesperson on matters of public health in the federal government of the United States. The surgeon general also has many informal duties, such as educating the American public about health issues and advocating healthy lifestyle choices.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The national public health agency of the United States.

The Surgeon General, despite popular misconceptions, is not just the guy who tells you not to smoke cigarettes. For example in July 1994, the Office of the Surgeon General authorized the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to serve as lead agency for preparing the first Surgeon General's report on physical activity and health.

https://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/sgr/intro.htm

The more you know...
So, the answer is that they are separate agencies. The Surgeon General does not represent the CDC. He heads a separate organization.

The more you know.
Strangely enough they were both saying masks don’t work. Probably a complete coincidence that has nothing to do with them being two important arms of same the federal health system.
Binger
God
Posts: 6500
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 am
Location: That's the difference. I actually have a Blue Heeler

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by Binger »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:00 am
This article in the Tribune states it much more eloquently than I can.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/05/13/ ... n-biggest/
That article is interesting for a lot of reasons. Particularly - the date and the references to dates from 2020.

It was very clear very early that this virus was an airborne virus. It was also clear very early that masks do not work, the wrong masks made the issue worse and that if everyone was not masked identically, the masks were not working for groups either. It was obvious from the get damn go that this was an airborne virus and social distancing was hardly relevant. Two people in an elevator were two people in an elevator, regardless of whether or not they were standing in the corners.

Let's be very clear here, again, - this is an airborne virus. That was known and remains known. It is not an STD. It is not passed in blood, semen and fecal matter. It is an airborne virus. It is not hanging out on fruit, coffee cups, grocery bags and on stationary bicycles.

The article drumdude linked to has some important dates and links in it related to the airborne nature of this virus.

And yet - beaches were closed, the confluence of the American River was closed for hiking, fishing and picnics. Playgrounds were closed. Waiting rooms were closed. Grocery stores and big boxes limited customers and made everyone enter and exit through the same doors. Tents were installed outside of restaurants and hospitals. Make no mistake here - THAT WAS ALL NON-CREDIBLE VIRTUE SIGNALING at it was done at a HUGE price. Ajax is not wrong about the economic price that we all paid and continue to pay for the benefit of a few people. And, people died because signaling virtues was more important than science - including basic math, mechanical engineering, physics and common effing sense.

Waiting rooms have a mandatory minimum number of air changes, including a mandatory minimum number of outside air changes. They also have required directional pressure for the air. This is meant to control the spread of airborne viruses. Tents on the other hand, do not have air handlers, they are tents. Putting people in tents without an air handler of any kind was insane and defied known science and known airborne infection practices.

Restaurants have mandatory air changes in dining rooms, tents do not. By seating people in a tent without filtration and air changes, they subjected them to a higher probability of a virus spread than if the people had been indoors.

The virtue signaling at the expense of lives and dollars is a price we will be paying for a long time. There is little to no credibility in the mask arguments that people experience. For example - masking in dining rooms. Wear a mask while standing, remove it while seated. Wear a mask to your table, then take it off. Are you kidding me? The virus is scary when I am standing but not when I am sitting? These insane and stupid practices destroy credibility and threaten the economic well-being of real people and the collective population.

And yeah... more about those vaccines we got. Me included. They leaked. We will be paying the price for that scam for a long time. But hey... common good, fellow man, feelings.
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 10555
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by Res Ipsa »

Binger wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:38 pm
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:00 am
This article in the Tribune states it much more eloquently than I can.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/05/13/ ... n-biggest/
That article is interesting for a lot of reasons. Particularly - the date and the references to dates from 2020.

It was very clear very early that this virus was an airborne virus. It was also clear very early that masks do not work, the wrong masks made the issue worse and that if everyone was not masked identically, the masks were not working for groups either. It was obvious from the get damn go that this was an airborne virus and social distancing was hardly relevant. Two people in an elevator were two people in an elevator, regardless of whether or not they were standing in the corners.

Let's be very clear here, again, - this is an airborne virus. That was known and remains known. It is not an STD. It is not passed in blood, semen and fecal matter. It is an airborne virus. It is not hanging out on fruit, coffee cups, grocery bags and on stationary bicycles.

The article drumdude linked to has some important dates and links in it related to the airborne nature of this virus.

And yet - beaches were closed, the confluence of the American River was closed for hiking, fishing and picnics. Playgrounds were closed. Waiting rooms were closed. Grocery stores and big boxes limited customers and made everyone enter and exit through the same doors. Tents were installed outside of restaurants and hospitals. Make no mistake here - THAT WAS ALL NON-CREDIBLE VIRTUE SIGNALING at it was done at a HUGE price. Ajax is not wrong about the economic price that we all paid and continue to pay for the benefit of a few people. And, people died because signaling virtues was more important than science - including basic math, mechanical engineering, physics and common effing sense.

Waiting rooms have a mandatory minimum number of air changes, including a mandatory minimum number of outside air changes. They also have required directional pressure for the air. This is meant to control the spread of airborne viruses. Tents on the other hand, do not have air handlers, they are tents. Putting people in tents without an air handler of any kind was insane and defied known science and known airborne infection practices.

Restaurants have mandatory air changes in dining rooms, tents do not. By seating people in a tent without filtration and air changes, they subjected them to a higher probability of a virus spread than if the people had been indoors.

The virtue signaling at the expense of lives and dollars is a price we will be paying for a long time. There is little to no credibility in the mask arguments that people experience. For example - masking in dining rooms. Wear a mask while standing, remove it while seated. Wear a mask to your table, then take it off. Are you kidding me? The virus is scary when I am standing but not when I am sitting? These insane and stupid practices destroy credibility and threaten the economic well-being of real people and the collective population.

And yeah... more about those vaccines we got. Me included. They leaked. We will be paying the price for that scam for a long time. But hey... common good, fellow man, feelings.
Exhibit A to the war on science and expertise. "virtue signaling" = stuff I'm politically opposed to.
he/him
When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig’d to call for the help of the Civil Power, ’tis a Sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.

Benjamin Franklin
Binger
God
Posts: 6500
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 am
Location: That's the difference. I actually have a Blue Heeler

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by Binger »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:32 pm

Exhibit A to the war on science and expertise. "virtue signaling" = stuff I'm politically opposed to.
No.
Exhibit A in the war on science and expertise was making virtue signals despite science and facts. Masking as a signal, where the masks did not and do not work is the war on science. Vaccinating as a signal, where the vaccines are not working, is the war on science and expertise. Failing to address airborne infection control using known scientific methods is a war on science and expertise.

Pretending that a discussion with scientific methods is a political opposition is an extension of that war on science and an extension of the harsh division where facts are derided in favor of political affiliation.
User avatar
canpakes
God
Posts: 7389
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by canpakes »

Binger wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:40 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:32 pm

Exhibit A to the war on science and expertise. "virtue signaling" = stuff I'm politically opposed to.
Exhibit A in the war on science and expertise was making virtue signals despite science and facts. Masking as a signal, where the masks did not and do not work is the war on science. Vaccinating as a signal, where the vaccines are not working, is the war on science and expertise.

You’ve said this countless times before, yet are unable to explain what ‘not working’ means. I’d suppose that this is meant in the same way they you could state that exercise is ‘not working’ because someone may die of heart disease regardless of having exercised at some point.

Same for the vaccine. It’s not going to protect every individual from death, but the science proving a level of effectiveness against infection from some coronavirus variants, or in mitigating more serious reactions when infected, runs counter to your claim.

Binger wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:40 pm
Waiting rooms have a mandatory minimum number of air changes, including a mandatory minimum number of outside air changes. They also have required directional pressure for the air. This is meant to control the spread of airborne viruses. Tents on the other hand, do not have air handlers, they are tents. Putting people in tents without an air handler of any kind was insane and defied known science and known airborne infection practices.

Sure. The ‘leakiness’ of any solution will affect results. Common cloth masks aren’t going to be the preferred method of control against breathing in an airborne virus. Yet a mask will definitely give some control over droplets or other crap coughed out of an individual. That was the idea behind proposing their use.

Similarly, somewhere there’s a fellow selling air filtration systems to hospitals, which are environments not engineered to be completely sealed, nor are those systems capable of immediately eliminating the possibility of viral transmission between individuals within the building. You can, by your own oft-stated criteria, state that any such system advertised and sold to a hospital ‘is not working’, because it cannot be 100% effective. What do we tell the folks who market those systems?
Binger
God
Posts: 6500
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 am
Location: That's the difference. I actually have a Blue Heeler

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by Binger »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:39 pm
It’s not going to protect every individual from death, but the science proving a level of effectiveness against infection from some coronavirus variants, or in mitigating more serious reactions when infected, runs counter to your claim.
Claims that the vaccines prevent infection have been debunked and abandoned.
canpakes wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:39 pm
Similarly, somewhere there’s a fellow selling air filtration systems to hospitals, which are environments not engineered to be completely sealed, nor are those systems capable of immediately eliminating the possibility of viral transmission between individuals within the building. You can, by your own oft-stated criteria, state that any such system advertised and sold to a hospital ‘is not working’, because it cannot be 100% effective. What do we tell the folks who market those systems?
You clearly do not understand the science, physics and math behind airborne infection control. Introducing "air filtration systems" and the sale of those systems to hospitals is a real clever way of saying you don't know either the science or the industry. The straw man suggestion that these so-called "air filtration systems" are not capable of immediately eliminating the possibility of a viral transmission is just comedy. I can't say what you are suggesting, and I do not say what you are suggesting.

I do not know the folks who market such a system. I do not know anyone making such claims. Anyone who pretends to have a system that can do that is a fraud or just someone you are imagining.

If you are interested in mechanical systems, infection control or life safety standards, all of that is available to you.
User avatar
canpakes
God
Posts: 7389
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:25 am

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by canpakes »

Binger wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:08 pm
canpakes wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:39 pm
It’s not going to protect every individual from death, but the science proving a level of effectiveness against infection from some coronavirus variants, or in mitigating more serious reactions when infected, runs counter to your claim.
Claims that the vaccines prevent infection have been debunked and abandoned.

You ignored the second claim, and you offer no science to dispute either claim. The existing science is disagreeing with you.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 22272308v1
Binger wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:08 pm
canpakes wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:39 pm
Similarly, somewhere there’s a fellow selling air filtration systems to hospitals, which are environments not engineered to be completely sealed, nor are those systems capable of immediately eliminating the possibility of viral transmission between individuals within the building. You can, by your own oft-stated criteria, state that any such system advertised and sold to a hospital ‘is not working’, because it cannot be 100% effective. What do we tell the folks who market those systems?
You clearly do not understand the science, physics and math behind airborne infection control. Introducing "air filtration systems" and the sale of those systems to hospitals is a real clever way of saying you don't know either the science or the industry. The straw man suggestion that these so-called "air filtration systems" are not capable of immediately eliminating the possibility of a viral transmission is just comedy. I can't say what you are suggesting, and I do not say what you are suggesting.

The straw man appears to be your own, as you and I both know that I’m not referring to ‘filtration’ as the single option of installing a mechanical filter and calling it a day. ; )

You and I also both know that no system, designed to act on the air within a hospital (there you go; that should cover all of the aspects of what we are talking about) is going to be 100% effective against transmission in, say, a hospital waiting room ... or in just about any other area of a hospital accessible to and used by one or more people at a given time. By your own criteria, all such systems must not be defined by any measure other than, ‘do not work’.
Binger
God
Posts: 6500
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:34 am
Location: That's the difference. I actually have a Blue Heeler

Re: State of the Pandemic

Post by Binger »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:26 pm
The existing science is disagreeing with you.
Wrong.
Binger wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:08 pm

The straw man appears to be your own, as you and I both know that I’m not referring to ‘filtration’ as the single option of installing a mechanical filter and calling it a day. ; )

You and I also both know that no system, designed to act on the air within a hospital (there you go; that should cover all of the aspects of what we are talking about) is going to be 100% effective against transmission in, say, a hospital waiting room ... or in just about any other area of a hospital accessible to and used by one or more people at a given time. By your own criteria, all such systems must not be defined by any measure other than, ‘do not work’.
What is a "mechanical filter'? What the hell? Are you building radios or something?

Oh boy. Is your straw man made of plastic straws, papers straws or straw?

Keep going, panny. I am laughing so damn hard. This is better than a Chappelle or Gervais special. Thanks buddy. You are good for this.
Post Reply