Great News for Student Loan Debtors

[Binger]

This is a great great day for America.

Everyone who owes money to Trump University just got a 10K credit from Biden to pay Trump. And this is great for the economy.

Thanks Obama.

[Xenophon]

Were federal student loans used at Trump University? I'm sure you're mostly joking but I'm curious. Given that even if they had that money had already long gone to TU and now the payback is just helping folks that were scammed, seems like a win to me.

As to the more general discussion about the loan forgiveness. I think this will likely result in a lot of headway for Biden among his own people and likely won't shift too many votes generically. Racking up another win in a post-Dobbs that already seems to be shifting the political wins in Democrats favor seems like a viable strategy to me.

[Binger]

Were federal student loans used at Trump University? I'm sure you're mostly joking but I'm curious. Given that even if they had that money had already long gone to TU and now the payback is just helping folks that were scammed, seems like a win to me.

As to the more general discussion about the loan forgiveness. I think this will likely result in a lot of headway for Biden among his own people and likely won't shift too many votes generically. Racking up another win in a post-Dobbs that already seems to be shifting the political wins in Democrats favor seems like a viable strategy to me.

That was a fair and accurate read. Thank you, Xeno.

If paying off some school debt was about "shifting votes" then this was a political loser. In an economy that is suffering from insane inflation, handing out $10,000 credits to the class of people that go to college and get gender studies, philosophy and classics degrees while the men and women in the trades pay their taxes and work through their apprenticeships is a fools trade. It is a fast and furious path to further alienation of the working class.

How much is the endowment at Harvard and Yale? And now their consumers get a credit for supplementing that endowment? People who can afford Teslas and Mach-E's can also get a 7-10k credit while the guys that drive trucks for their work and business get to pay for diesel fuel. How much more of a divide does Biden want? Frankly, I think he will not be happy until there is absolute division between the parties and classes.

This move by Biden was political tectonics, which, I believe, was the whole point.

[Binger]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rest ... -drop-dead

That take is probably close to my take on this situation.

Though, I would not call it a "drop dead" instruction. I would call it more of a "go **** yourself, eat **** and die if you don't vote for me" instruction. Biden is playing for votes at ANY price and this appears to be a HUGE price.

[canpakes]

Were federal student loans used at Trump University? I'm sure you're mostly joking but I'm curious. Given that even if they had that money had already long gone to TU and now the payback is just helping folks that were scammed, seems like a win to me.

As to the more general discussion about the loan forgiveness. I think this will likely result in a lot of headway for Biden among his own people and likely won't shift too many votes generically. Racking up another win in a post-Dobbs that already seems to be shifting the political wins in Democrats favor seems like a viable strategy to me.

That was a fair and accurate read. Thank you, Xeno.

If paying off some school debt was about "shifting votes" then this was a political loser. In an economy that is suffering from insane inflation, handing out $10,000 credits to the class of people that go to college and get gender studies, philosophy and classics degrees while the men and women in the trades pay their taxes and work through their apprenticeships is a fools trade. It is a fast and furious path to further alienation of the working class.

Trade school students can receive/have received Pell Grants and Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grants. This ‘loan forgiveness’ can also be used by folks in ‘the trades’, even as plenty of other college grads who aren’t in what you consider ‘the trades’ are still members of ‘the working class’.

How much is the endowment at Harvard and Yale? And now their consumers get a credit for supplementing that endowment?

Sure, the question of endowments and the cost of college tuition generally can also be looked at.

1. How would you regulate college pricing?

2. How would you address the endowment issue (arguably an issue for a very minor number of colleges and universities)?

3. What changes would you like to see to the tax code regarding how wealthy folks donate to colleges and fund the endowment?

4. Should we modify the amount allowed to be spent by each endowment in a given year (typically between 5% to 10% of the endowment’s total asset value), to a higher level?

5. Do you propose that tuition be reduced based on family income, or across the board? If you reduce the yearly tuition at Princeton by 25%, from $48K to $36K, how many folks then won’t need to take out student loans?

People who can afford Teslas and Mach-E's can also get a 7-10k credit while the guys that drive trucks for their work and business get to pay for diesel fuel. How much more of a divide does Biden want? Frankly, I think he will not be happy until there is absolute division between the parties and classes.

Those credits have been in place for a while. I don’t think that it’s solely a Biden issue.

The division seems more driven by the dichotomies that you want to paint here, rather than the realities in the field.

[Xenophon]

That was a fair and accurate read. Thank you, Xeno.

If paying off some school debt was about "shifting votes" then this was a political loser. In an economy that is suffering from insane inflation, handing out $10,000 credits to the class of people that go to college and get gender studies, philosophy and classics degrees while the men and women in the trades pay their taxes and work through their apprenticeships is a fools trade. It is a fast and furious path to further alienation of the working class.

How much is the endowment at Harvard and Yale? And now their consumers get a credit for supplementing that endowment? People who can afford Teslas and Mach-E's can also get a 7-10k credit while the guys that drive trucks for their work and business get to pay for diesel fuel. How much more of a divide does Biden want? Frankly, I think he will not be happy until there is absolute division between the parties and classes.

This move by Biden was political tectonics, which, I believe, was the whole point.

To the vote shifting, I agree. I may not have been clear but I've been seeing a lot of takes that think this will move voters one way or another which I think is not likely. I don't see anyone who was voting R before this moving to D or vice versa. I do see this as a move that will play well with the left end of the Democrat base and might spur a little more engagement among the younger portions of the party.

I think the cycle of student loans->forgiveness->another round of student loans->more forgiveness is not sustainable and I wish we could move to a much more viable standard (I'm partial to the German model but I'm willing to compromise on that). This setup just turns into a game of roulette for those that need the most help and will result in those before and after the forgiveness period suffering. I'd also greatly prefer a drastic reduction in EOs vs legislation but Congress let that ship sail long ago. To your article, I'll agree that there are deep systemic problems with the financial setup for college and this does nothing to tackle that but I'm hard pressed to listen to Republicans who haven't done a damn thing to correct the problem either (in case it isn't clear, I'm referring to those dissenting politicians that had full control of the government just a few short years ago and did nothing).

You're right that some folks that didn't really need the help will benefit but I don't see that as fully countering the good done for those struggling to try to receive higher education, a step that is highly beneficial to society at large. With the $125K/250K cutoff there are obviously always going to be those just above and below the line that are questionable, as with any "arbitrary" distinction. There are tons of low income folks drowning in loans and there are also large sums that will be forgiven that were used on trade school. It's highly likely that a few of those truckers and welders and electricians that are so often put on a pedestal will also benefit here.

I also don't view this is a zero sum game, steps to reduce fuel costs and offset inflation can occur at the same time as offsetting college tuition.

[Doctor Steuss]

How much is the endowment at Harvard and Yale? And now their consumers get a credit for supplementing that endowment? People who can afford Teslas and Mach-E's can also get a 7-10k credit while the guys that drive trucks for their work and business get to pay for diesel fuel. How much more of a divide does Biden want? Frankly, I think he will not be happy until there is absolute division between the parties and classes.

I'm excited to see what Ford's lightning will do to the market. If I were in a trade though, I doubt I'd want to chance it on the first models. I don't know of anyone who got an early Raptor, that used it primarily for work, that was happy with their decision.

The Rivian was already about where a 350/3500 with some basic bells-and-whistles added would be priced (with towing capacity, torque, and HP that was as good as (or better) than most super-duty). Hopefully Ford's entry will drive the price down some, as well as entice the likes of Chevy to start churning out a mass of no-frills electric workhorses.

20 bucks says dudes will be charging their trucks at sites with generators, lol.


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On the student loan forgiveness front, I keep getting the "this is unfair" twinges. I paid off my wife's student loans shortly after we got married through a 401k self-loan. Having $10K of that forgiven would have been huge (would still be huge). It's strange what things can give us the ole "not fair" knee-jerk, while others make us just shrug with a "I'm happy for them." It's right there on the surface, that I feel this is a good and right thing to do for all of these people... but scratch the surface, and it starts getting nasty.

Sometimes for fun, my wife will send me job postings that she comes across. It's insane just how many are "Bachelor's or greater required. Starting pay $15/hr." I fear that this loan forgiveness is like tossing a water bottle to someone in a burning house. Nice small relief, but doesn't really address the fire. Hopefully more states start to move in the direction of free community college for 2 year degrees and local trade schools (or bring trade funding and courses back to HS).

[Binger]

I also don't view this is a zero sum game, steps to reduce fuel costs and offset inflation can occur at the same time as offsetting college tuition.

AMEN!!!!! Amen, and amen. YES!

Me too, Xeno.

[Binger]

20 bucks says dudes will be charging their trucks at sites with generators, lol.

======

Nice small relief, but doesn't really address the fire. Hopefully more states start to move in the direction of free community college for 2 year degrees and local trade schools (or bring trade funding and courses back to HS).

Yes. There will be guys plugging trucks into welders and generators on the job site. It has already been tried and a few have figure out how to pull it off.

I agree with you on these three points: Community College should be free, agreed. Trade schools should be paid apprenticeships, not just free. Trade schools should start in junior high, middle school and high school. Anything less than that is just BS.

[Xenophon]

On the student loan forgiveness front, I keep getting the "this is unfair" twinges. I paid off my wife's student loans shortly after we got married through a 401k self-loan. Having $10K of that forgiven would have been huge (would still be huge). It's strange what things can give us the ole "not fair" knee-jerk, while others make us just shrug with a "I'm happy for them." It's right there on the surface, that I feel this is a good and right thing to do for all of these people... but scratch the surface, and it starts getting nasty.

Sometimes for fun, my wife will send me job postings that she comes across. It's insane just how many are "Bachelor's or greater required. Starting pay $15/hr." I fear that this loan forgiveness is like tossing a water bottle to someone in a burning house. Nice small relief, but doesn't really address the fire. Hopefully more states start to move in the direction of free community college for 2 year degrees and local trade schools (or bring trade funding and courses back to HS).

I think feeling that it wasn't fair previously (or after this forgiveness period for that matter) is entirely okay. The only thing I'd challenge folks on is who they are holding accountable for the injustice. The focus shouldn't be on the recent grad that actually needs the help, instead you should be asking where this action was 20 years. Not saying your focus is misplaced, just speaking to a lot of the backlash I've heard so far. On a personal level most of the folks I talk to agree that current financial model for college is busted they just are a bit grumpy they didn't get to benefit. When pressed a little further they seem to begrudgingly agree that this was a good thing for those folks. I think when the dust settles this may be the beginning of a large conversation that needs to be had about tuition costs. That is my anecdotal take primarily from the last 2 days at least, mileage may vary.