Why I Say I Know the LDS Church Is True

[dastardly stem]

What can go both ways?

Life trajectory of belief in God vs.not. I’ve experienced both trajectories also. Those trajectories often have off ramps and on ramps as one moves along the freeway of life. Visit here, visit there. Check out the sights/scenery and then either move on/move past or stay put in one location or another.

There are general trajectories and then more specific. The freeway, the off ramps, the side streets, the dead ends…and ramps to get back on the freeway in general trajectory towards where one chooses to go.

God belief is a general trajectory. It’s headed in a certain direction. God disbelief is a general trajectory. Both provide opportunities to simply stay on the freeway towards the chosen destination/direction or to take off ramps and side streets…and dead ends.

That’s life in a world in which the GPS is rather flaky and difficult to receive the signal at times.

Regards,
MG

This makes very little if any sense to me. But I say, have at it.

[MG 2.0]

Perhaps God has a particular plan for an unbelieving child who suffers and whose life is cut short. Perhaps.

Perhaps. But it could also be that crap happens in this world no matter how much we’d like to pray it all away.

Unbelief vs. belief? God makes the sun rise on the just and the unjust. I would imagine it’s the same with the *hit that happens.

That’s been my general observation.

After all, what does it mean to live in a fallen world?

Regards,
MG

[dastardly stem]

Consider with me right now it's quite likely there is a child suffering, headed toward death, through disease, or violence.

And it could be right within your own family or circle of acquaintances. It doesn’t seem that God plays favorites.

Regards,
MG

Your comments seems to suggest favorites even more so. I’mhoping you elaborate on what you mean? Are you saying if someone in your family suffers then that means god doesn’t favor you who has god inside you? That’d be weird.

[MG 2.0]

Life trajectory of belief in God vs.not. I’ve experienced both trajectories also. Those trajectories often have off ramps and on ramps as one moves along the freeway of life. Visit here, visit there. Check out the sights/scenery and then either move on/move past or stay put in one location or another.

There are general trajectories and then more specific. The freeway, the off ramps, the side streets, the dead ends…and ramps to get back on the freeway in general trajectory towards where one chooses to go.

God belief is a general trajectory. It’s headed in a certain direction. God disbelief is a general trajectory. Both provide opportunities to simply stay on the freeway towards the chosen destination/direction or to take off ramps and side streets…and dead ends.

That’s life in a world in which the GPS is rather flaky and difficult to receive the signal at times.

Regards,
MG

This makes very little if any sense to me. But I say, have at it.

It’s a parable of sorts.

This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
Matt. 13:13

Maybe others here with eyes to see and ears to hear will understand.

I’m kinda messin’ with you stem.

It all makes perfect sense to me.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

And it could be right within your own family or circle of acquaintances. It doesn’t seem that God plays favorites.

Regards,
MG

Your comments seems to suggest favorites even more so. I’mhoping you elaborate on what you mean? Are you saying if someone in your family suffers then that means god doesn’t favor you who has god inside you? That’d be weird.

Not sure what you even mean by saying “has god inside you”.

Now you’re not making sense.

What do you mean by that?

I’m saying that there is really no qualitative difference between times, places, and peoples when it comes to *hit happening in the world. Serendipity is real. I think we can agree on that. When, where, and HOW God intervenes in the world is somewhat of an open question and mystery. I haven’t figured it out. But that doesn’t keep me from moving forward in faith.

And no, it’s not blind faith. That was a band (in my top five or so favorites from eons gone by).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Faith

For the young whipper snappers here.

Regards,
MG

[dastardly stem]

Not sure what you even mean by saying “has god inside you”.

It’s a way of characterizing it from my perspective. The isn’t any reason to think there’s a god except for people saying he makes them feel good. It makes it seems the unknowable god who can’t be located is really only ever experienced or known inside believers. After all if their is no god, and believers are mistaken, god is really just whatever is happening In a believer.

Now you’re not making sense.

What do you mean by that?

I’m saying that there is really no qualitative difference between times, places, and peoples when it comes to *hit happening in the world. Serendipity is real. I think we can agree on that. When, where, and HOW God intervenes in the world is somewhat of an open question and mystery. I haven’t figured it out. But that doesn’t keep me from moving forward in faith.

And no, it’s not blind faith. That was a band (in my top five or so favorites from eons gone by).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Faith

For the young whipper snappers here.

Regards,
MG

Again you validate my point. It appears each time you explain it only confirms god would have to be very choosey, very much one who picks favorites.

[malkie]

"most part", "really matter" - I like how tentative you have to be! To refer to the situation then as a "settled position of harmony" seems like a bit of a stretch. Individual leaders have not even been in harmony with themselves about doctrine.

That is true. But over time and as the dust settles they come to consensus. Or at least they resolve issues to the point that individually they cede their differences to the higher authority.

Regardless, for that to be true, your "most part" and "things that really matter" should exclude, at the very least: polygamy; the withholding of the priesthood from black members; blood atonement; the status of the word "Mormon" as a suitable moniker for members.

Those things do matter, but it took time and understanding to resolve these issues at least to the point where they no longer play an active role in whether or not the core tenets of the gospel are true and ought to be paid serious attention to.

With regards to God withdrawing himself and authority from the church, I think you would need to demonstrate in some way (besides testimony) that he both gave and did not subsequently remove said authority.

I think that at the end of the day religion and Mormonism in particular in this instance are experiential. As one immerses themselves in the church and living the gospel, practicing prayerful behavior, reading scriptures, etc., one either does or doesn’t receive a ‘witness’ as to whether or not God is in the church leading and guiding its leaders. I don’t think that same witness or realization can come from the outside looking in while at the same time being antagonistic.

I think that the same could be said by adherents to any religious tradition in which God plays a core role in the practice of faith. It could be said that God is in and through all things that lead towards greater light, knowledge, and goodness.

The church and its emphasis on temple worthiness and participation in ordinances of salvation/exaltation definitely fits in with that view of God. God is bigger than the LDS Church, but that doesn’t negate the ‘authority’ the church has to do certain things in the grand scheme of things. But again, the ‘testimony’ of whether that is true becomes more experiential than intellectually verifiable. Especially over time.

In fact, knowing that the church is true through experience IN the church and LIVING the gospel fits in well with “I KNOW the church is true” testimonies heard at any fast and testimony meeting.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/know

1b (3)

Regards,
MG

TL/DR:

• Multiple prophets, seers, and revelators were 100% wrong on multiple occasions in the past.
• But believe me, I'm convinced they are correct now! Or, if not, they will come to agree with each other at some time in the future.
• Ignore those little flecks of history.

[IHAQ]

At times I get up in Fast and Testimony Meetings and say, among other things, that I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. By that I don't mean that I have a step by step proof from known axioms to my conclusion about the LDS Church. Rather I mean that I have a very strong hunch that that conclusion is correct. I have talked a little about this on other threads. It's obvious to me that human beings (and all other forms of life?) are non-deterministic, and it's also obvious that non-determinism cannot arise out of a completely deterministic universe, so I have concluded that someone, or some group of beings, with free will has/have existed since the moment of the Big Bang.

Kevin, you subscribe to the idea of a Big Bang rather than the Adam & Eve creation story?

Where did KevinSim go?

[IHAQ]

What would your organization have to do to be Not True?

I think this is a key question that gets right to the heart of the matter. Kevin, can you answer Doc's question?

Hi KevinSim, this^ is still waiting for a response from you...

[IHAQ]

What would your organization have to do to be Not True?

I think this is a key question that gets right to the heart of the matter. Kevin, can you answer Doc's question?

Still waiting KevinSim