Critics should be able to produce their own Book of Mormon to attack its miraculous creation

[MG 2.0]

Leaving the production time issue aside, the text of the Book of Mormon definitely does exist, so if it were somehow completely incredible as the product of a poorly educated young man, working over whatever time frame, then that might be weightier evidence that Smith did not just make up the text. It would still leave open the possibilities that he had help from contemporaries, or even that he found the text already written somewhere. But it would tend to rule out the theory that Smith himself made up the text.

This book does about as good a job in looking at plot line, complexity, etc. as any other book I’ve come across. Some here disagree, but I’ll point it out to you anyway in case you’re not aware of it:

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Bo ... adcf170fd3

Regards,
MG

[Gabriel]

Now, take the Book of Mormon -- I take the apologists literally when they say that the Book of Mormon is a 90-day wonder because it must be a 90-day wonder, the Book of Mormon needs to have been written in 90 days because the story itself can’t walk without crutches.

I’ve posted this before, but I’ll do it again:

http://www.eldenwatson.net/BoMIntro.htm

Scroll to bottom. Select link.

Regards,
MG

I will give this a gander. Thank You.

[Dr Exiled]

Leaving the production time issue aside, the text of the Book of Mormon definitely does exist, so if it were somehow completely incredible as the product of a poorly educated young man, working over whatever time frame, then that might be weightier evidence that Smith did not just make up the text. It would still leave open the possibilities that he had help from contemporaries, or even that he found the text already written somewhere. But it would tend to rule out the theory that Smith himself made up the text.

This book does about as good a job in looking at plot line, complexity, etc. as any other book I’ve come across. Some here disagree, but I’ll point it out to you anyway in case you’re not aware of it:

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Bo ... adcf170fd3

Regards,
MG

Of course it does for you and that can be expected from believers. However, for most, it doesn't.

[IHAQ]

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of travelings, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... nhabitants

Joseph was fleshing out the Book of Mormon long before the final 90 days of dictation apologists wish to solely focus on.

[IHAQ]

Leaving the production time issue aside, the text of the Book of Mormon definitely does exist, so if it were somehow completely incredible as the product of a poorly educated young man, working over whatever time frame, then that might be weightier evidence that Smith did not just make up the text. It would still leave open the possibilities that he had help from contemporaries, or even that he found the text already written somewhere. But it would tend to rule out the theory that Smith himself made up the text.

This book does about as good a job in looking at plot line, complexity, etc. as any other book I’ve come across. Some here disagree, but I’ll point it out to you anyway in case you’re not aware of it:

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Bo ... adcf170fd3

Regards,
MG

Can you give a few examples from the book, assuming you've read it , where it does a good job of looking at plot line, complexity etc?

[Kishkumen]

There is evidence, in the testimony of Joseph’s mother, that Smith was describing the ancient inhabitants of America long before he sat down to dictate the Book of Mormon. I’d say this is indicative of his composition process and that we should not just focus on the dictation timeline. Dictation does not necessarily equate to composition.

[Marcus]

This book does about as good a job in looking at plot line, complexity, etc. as any other book I’ve come across. Some here disagree, but I’ll point it out to you anyway in case you’re not aware of it:

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Bo ... adcf170fd3

Regards,
MG

Can you give a few examples from the book, assuming you've read it , where it does a good job of looking at plot line, complexity etc?

‘Assuming’ is a good point. A moment of Deja vu, again:

….What gives Honor the inherent right or responsibility to judge Metaxas? All he’s really doing is dissing him so as to avoid having to look at and read his book and any arguments he’s making and trying to steer others to do the same….

…I take issue with your approach to board participation being largely devoid of discussion over the evidence for or against a particular position. If his book has merit, share the information you imagine makes the best case for the position he takes and you support.

I've read too many bad books, and a few on your recommendation, to meet someone's challenge only to find they had no interest in actual discussion of the content when push came to shove. You fall in this category.

After reading that garbage fire that is the Grant Hardy book and challenging your claim of its value it turned out you had no actual thoughts on the content beyond what one could have gained reading the back cover page.

We've discussed webpages and online resources over the last few years, and time and time again you can't manage a paragraph synthesizing your takeaways from the sources that rises above you find it compelling as a believer so it's no surprise to you if non-believers don't. It's silly to imagine you keep walking in here throwing the same counterfeit currency on the counter and expect people to accept it.

…So, surprise me, MG. Synthesize your take aways into the strongest argument you can compose and give me a reason to read the book.

Moral pervert and all-around horrible person that I am, apparently, I'd read a book in exchange for genuine and rewarding discussion of the contents.

But that hasn't been your forté to date, has it?

[MG 2.0]

honorentheos:
After reading that garbage fire that is the Grant Hardy book and challenging your claim of its value it turned out you had no actual thoughts on the content beyond what one could have gained reading the back cover page.

This was one person’s view. I’m bringing this book to the attention of those that may not have read it. For me, at the time I read it, it simply opened up my understanding to the fact that if Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon (Vogel et al) then he was an absolute genius or there might be another explanation. It was then that I gave Joseph’s version of events another shot. Along with Given’s “By the Hand of Mormon”

https://www.amazon.com/Hand-Mormon-Amer ... cdf7e41f62

I found myself back on a trajectory of faith rather than full fledged doubt. Others will not respond the same way.

Those that want to paint Joseph as being sole author have a large hill to climb. Hardy’s book, for me, helped navigate that hill and to a certain extent be able to come down off that hill having expended a lot of energy trying to climb it.

As with honor, I’m not going to spend the time going through and quoting all of my ‘red lining’, I would simply suggest others read it and come away with their own general feelings/understandings.

I’m actually NOT the one to have an in depth conversation with on the deeper literary aspects of the points Hardy is making. My reading simply gave me an overall “hey, that was a good meal”, takeaway that led to further thinking, prayer, and patience in regards to things Mormon.

The book simply made a difference.

I would recommend reading it for those that haven’t.

When all the evidence is in I just don’t see a scenario where Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon.

That’s all I’ll say on this subject this time around.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I’ve posted this before, but I’ll do it again:

http://www.eldenwatson.net/BoMIntro.htm

Scroll to bottom. Select link.

Regards,
MG

I will give this a gander. Thank You.

I don’t know that I’ve seen anyone take down Watson’s timeline.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

*lies about reading*