Critics should be able to produce their own Book of Mormon to attack its miraculous creation

[Doctor Steuss]

Given the insane complexity of Tolkien's creation of societies and civilizations (that makes the Book of Mormon look like a Little Golden Book), the creation of languages (not just a curelom and cumom here and there), the development of multifaceted characters, and the above chart regarding "word counts" -- it's unfortunate that Tolkien didn't claim divine inspiration.

Then again, maybe he didn't' claim divine inspiration, or disclose his holy instruments, as to not interfere with faith.



I wonder if Corin Tellado's average of 5 novels a month means she had some otherworldly assistance....

[Marcus]

Creative dictation is more difficult than creative writing because , as Louis Brandeis, who served as an associate justice on the Supreme Court of the United States from 1916 to 1939 explained: “There is no good writing; there is only good rewriting.”

There is literally no evidence whatsoever to support that "because".

What a shoddy piece of pseudo-analysis.

[Doctor Steuss]

Fun fact I just ran across. Dostoevsky dictated The Gambler to his stenographer in 26 days.

Not sure on which deity is responsible for the feat though.

[IHAQ]

Let’s pick one of the criteria:

Composition Methodology

Multiple witnesses declared that Joseph Smith spoke the words of the Book of Mormon rather than personally writing them. This observation separates him from more than 99% of all authors who ever published a book.
Historically, the composition technique taught in schools worldwide is called creative writing and comprises three general steps.
Pre-writing: choosing a subject, creating an outline, and performing the required research.
Writing: making the initial draft and combining sections.
Re-writing: revising, content-editing, and all subsequent drafts.
When dictating a book to a scribe (or stenographer), as Joseph Smith did, step one is restricted to memory, and step three is eliminated. There is no evidence Joseph engaged in step one in any discernable way, [Page 158]although mental preparations would not be detectable. The manuscript went straight to press without step three enhancements.
Dictating a book without pre-writing or re-writing might be called creative dictation. The advent of smart phones and voice-to-text apps has facilitated cell phone users today to produce long manuscripts using creative dictation and thereby attempt to replicate Joseph Smith’s efforts. The need for a scribe is removed by dictating text messages of 20 to 30 words each (the apparent word blocks Joseph spoke to his scribes) into the app. These are received in order and copied into an expanding document. Before hitting send, grammar and spelling can be corrected, but once sent, the sequence of the sentences cannot be changed. The author does not consult manuscripts or books while dictating. Repeat this process 10,000 times until a document of roughly 270,000 words is formed that can be sent to a publisher for typesetting and printing.
Creative dictation is more difficult than creative writing because, as Louis Brandeis, who served as an associate justice on the Supreme Court of the United States from 1916 to 1939 explained: “There is no good writing; there is only good rewriting.” Popular novelist and essayist Robert Louis Stevenson concurred: “When I say writing, O, believe me, it is rewriting that I have chiefly in mind.” This inherent limitation of creative dictation is probably why none of the authors in the comparisons charted below elected to recite their books from memory and then send them directly to the printer. Even genius-level intellects today pre-write, write, and rewrite their books prior to completion.
Throughout the remainder of this article, all the authors listed in the comparisons except Joseph Smith used creative writing techniques, rather than creative dictation, to produce their books. The possible significance of this distinction deserves additional study that is beyond the scope of this essay.

Sure, Joseph was able to entertain his family with stories concerning ancient inhabitants of the Americas. But the composition of the Book of Mormon in around three months is nothing less than miraculous.

You seem stuck with the fixed notion that the Book of Mormon was composed in around 3 months. Joseph first articulated the stories and themes of the Book of Mormon 5 years earlier in 1823.

According to Joseph Smith, in 1823, when he was seventeen years old, an angel of God named Moroni appeared to him and said that a collection of ancient writings was buried in a nearby hill in present-day Wayne County, New York, engraved on golden plates by ancient prophets.[21][22] The writings were said to describe a people whom God had led from Jerusalem to the Western hemisphere 600 years before Jesus's birth.[2] (This "angel Moroni" figure also appears in the Book of Mormon as the last prophet among these people and had buried the record, which God had promised to bring forth in the latter days.) Smith said this vision occurred on the evening of September 21, 1823, and that on the following day, via divine guidance, he located the burial location of the plates on this hill and was instructed by Moroni to meet him at the same hill on September 22 of the following year to receive further instructions, which repeated annually for the next three years.[23][24] Smith told his entire immediate family about this angelic encounter by the next night, and his brother William reported that the family "believed all he [Joseph Smith] said" about the angel and plates.[25]

Smith and his family reminisced that as part of what Smith believed was angelic instruction, Moroni provided Smith with a "brief sketch" of the "origin, progress, civilization, laws, governments ... righteousness and iniquity" of the "aboriginal inhabitants of the country" (referring to the Nephites and Lamanites who figure in the Book of Mormon's primary narrative). Smith sometimes shared what he believed he had learned through such angelic encounters with his family in what his mother Lucy Mack Smith called "most amusing recitals".[26]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon

Is producing a book (that contains plagiarised 19th century content) in 5 years miraculous?

Houdini made an elephant miraculously disappear in just a few minutes. But once you see how it was done, you see the extensive preparation and planning that went into making it appear miraculous. This fixation on 90 days and discounting the many years preparation Joseph put into it, is simply a way of holding on to the idea that the elephant really did miraculously disappear. It's self delusion.

The burden of proof does not lie with the critics to show how Joseph couldn't possibly have done it. The burden of proof lies with those claiming the book is the story of ancient inhabitants of the Americas, that was written down on ancient gold plates. That burden of proof threshold has not been met. That it contains KJV Bible content is sufficient evidence that it is not what it is claimed to be. That it was not produced the way it was claimed to have been. Any discussion about timescales is simply a way of distracting the debate away from the obvious.

[Kishkumen]

Is producing a book (that contains plagiarised 19th century content) in 5 years miraculous?

Houdini made an elephant miraculously disappear in just a few minutes. But once you see how it was done, you see the extensive preparation and planning that went into making it appear miraculous. This fixation on 90 days and discounting the many years preparation Joseph put into it, is simply a way of holding on to the idea that the elephant really did miraculously disappear. It's self delusion.

The burden of proof does not lie with the critics to show how Joseph couldn't possibly have done it. The burden of proof lies with those claiming the book is the story of ancient inhabitants of the Americas, that was written down on ancient gold plates. That burden of proof threshold has not been met. That it contains KJV Bible content is sufficient evidence that it is not what it is claimed to be. That it was not produced the way it was claimed to have been. Any discussion about timescales is simply a way of distracting the debate away from the obvious.

Absolutely brilliant analogy with Houdini. Perfect.

And you are exactly right about the burden of proof. Those who sell snake oil need to prove it actually works before I hand over my dollar.

[Dr Exiled]

I agree that the 90 day thing is a dodge used to make it seem more miraculous. It's obvious that Joseph Smith was thinking about his book from the time he started lying about plates being in the hill near his house and I believe that was in 1823 when he invented the plates story. Also, do we know for sure that what was dictated during the rock and hat magic show made it word for word into the final book? Or were there subsequent drafts during the time between the end of the magic show and when it went to the publisher?

Anyway, where are the Nephite remains? Where is the evidence tying Israelites from 600 BC to the Americas? Nahum Nahom? Give me a break.