What exactly Is Wrong with Polygamy anyway?

[Res Ipsa]

The vast majority of men will never be in polyamorous relationship.

One in 6 Americans find polyamory to be acceptable. Men 21% versus women 13% are more likely to accept polyamory lifestyle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory ... ted_States

Finding polyamory to be an acceptable lifestyle is not the same as being in a polyamorous relationship.

[Markk]

On this forum every once in a while someone will mention polygamy in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as if that's a guaranteed way of scoring points against that church. I personally have no desire whatsoever to be married to more women than just my one wife, but if three adults (of any gender combination) want to join into a marriage relationship, why should anyone else care? I heard one source say polygamy is bad because it exploits women. Why is it that a man marrying two women means he's exploiting women, but another man marrying just one woman means he is not exploiting women?

LOL..your church cares…it has been outlawed for a century or so…they don’t even recognized the fundies of Jeff’s, do you?

Should the current leadership do an about face and simply allow men to have multiple wives and women have multiple husbands? By your statement you are damned according to section 132 anyways…think man! Do your homework and at least understand LDS doctrine and history, i.e. the ever lasting covenant and the continuation of seeds. Your OP was just a un-thought out testimony reinsurance fail, which we all we did before we realized how f’d up Mormonism is.

I don’t visit the site very often anymore and reading crap like this is why.

[KevinSim]

Polygamy itself, however, cannot possibly do that—and it is obvious that it cannot. Polygamy does not increase the number of mothers, but only reduces the number of fathers.

Then, Physics Guy, do you take issue with the Gospel Topics essay on polygamy on the LDS website that says when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy virtually everyone (including the male members) who wanted to be married were married?

What is wrong with polygamy as a social norm is that it is either (a) permanent involuntary celibacy for most men or else (b) very young girls all marrying much older men. And in either case it is also (c) women having only a fraction of a monogamous relationship.

Neither (a) nor (b) are required if a significantly larger number of men than women have, of their own volition, chosen to not make the sacrifices necessary for a successful marriage. And the fraction mentioned in (c) is on average the same fraction we have today. Sure, many women enjoy purely monogamous relationships; at the sane time many women have no heterosexual relationships at all. And that's an improvement over polygamy? Physics Guy, are you saying that all those single women don't matter?

[Physics Guy]

Then, Physics Guy, do you take issue with the Gospel Topics essay on polygamy on the LDS website that says when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy virtually everyone (including the male members) who wanted to be married were married?

Who in 19th century Utah wanted to be married is a matter of historical conjecture now, and at the time it was affected by social conditioning. So the essay is trying to use inherently dubious claims about past people's feelings to weasel out of simple arithmetic. Polygamy matches more than one mother to each father. What part of the math is unclear?

What is wrong with polygamy as a social norm is that it is either (a) permanent involuntary celibacy for most men or else (b) very young girls all marrying much older men. And in either case it is also (c) women having only a fraction of a monogamous relationship.

Neither (a) nor (b) are required if a significantly larger number of men than women have, of their own volition, chosen to not make the sacrifices necessary for a successful marriage. And the fraction mentioned in (c) is on average the same fraction we have today. Sure, many women enjoy purely monogamous relationships; at the sane time many women have no heterosexual relationships at all. And that's an improvement over polygamy? Physics Guy, are you saying that all those single women don't matter?

1) Nothing in First-World countries is stopping any number of women from cohabiting with any number of men today. If there are lots of involuntarily single women today who would rather share a man than have no man, they are free to do that. Do you notice it happening a lot?

2) Are you saying that historical Mormon polygamy was sustained by a large fraction of men enthusiastically opting for lifelong celibacy? Or are you acknowledging that historical Mormon polygamy was sustained by pedogamy, and proposing for modern society a new kind of polygamy that has nothing to do with Mormon history?

[Dr. Shades]

Then, Physics Guy, do you take issue with the Gospel Topics essay on polygamy on the LDS website that says when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy virtually everyone (including the male members) who wanted to be married were married?

I'm not Physics Guy, but I definitely take issue with the Gospel Topics essay. It's nothing more than party propaganda, aimed at simple believers like you who won't bother to do the math that Physics Guy did.

Neither (a) nor (b) are required if a significantly larger number of men than women have, of their own volition, chosen to not make the sacrifices necessary for a successful marriage.

That's a mopologetic hypothetical you dreamed up out of thin air that didn't actually exist in the real world. Most if not nearly all men back in the 1800s chose to make the sacrifices necessary for a successful marriage, but many or most were prevented from actually doing so thanks to the old pervs at the top hoarding all the women for themselves.

And the fraction mentioned in (c) is on average the same fraction we have today.

NO IT ISN'T! A monogamous woman has 100% of a relationship with her partner, since her partner isn't splitting his relationship with any other woman. This math is even easier than what Physics Guy already did for you.

You know, KevinSim, the LDS church needs members like you. Eventually you'll be the only type left.

[Moksha]

Lawyers at Kirton McConkie are preparing a lawsuit against Merriam-Webster for making "Gaslighting" its word of the year. The suit alleges that Merriam-Webster is interfering with religious freedom.

[dastardly stem]

Lawyers at Kirton McConkie are preparing a lawsuit against Merriam-Webster for making "Gaslighting" its word of the year. The suit alleges that Merriam-Webster is interfering with religious freedom.

[Marcus]

Polygamy itself, however, cannot possibly do that—and it is obvious that it cannot. Polygamy does not increase the number of mothers, but only reduces the number of fathers.

Then, Physics Guy, do you take issue with the Gospel Topics essay on polygamy on the LDS website that says when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy virtually everyone (including the male members) who wanted to be married were married?

I looked at the essay, and yes, I would take issue:

…marriage became available to virtually all who desired it; per-capita inequality of wealth was diminished as economically disadvantaged women married into more financially stable households; and ethnic intermarriages were increased, which helped to unite a diverse immigrant population.….

Is there any documentation to support this? There were no sources and the above contains quite a few very specific sociological and historical claims, but no sources were given.

[Dr Moore]

Then, Physics Guy, do you take issue with the Gospel Topics essay on polygamy on the LDS website that says when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy virtually everyone (including the male members) who wanted to be married were married?

I looked at the essay, and yes, I would take issue:

…marriage became available to virtually all who desired it; per-capita inequality of wealth was diminished as economically disadvantaged women married into more financially stable households; and ethnic intermarriages were increased, which helped to unite a diverse immigrant population.….

Is there any documentation to support this? There were no sources and the above contains quite a few very specific sociological and historical claims, but no sources were given.

It’s simple math here. For all men who want to marry to be married, you must have one of three things happen over time:
1. More men than women do not desire to marry, in perpetuity.
2. Church recruits(converts) more women than men, in perpetuity.
3. Women are married at a younger and younger age (not sustainable- eventually marry at birth and then program hits a wall).

[KevinSim]

Why do you suppose men within a certain faith vector are promised 72 virgins after death?

Did you mean 17? Maybe I'm getting the faith vector wrong, but whether they're promised 72 or 17, my guess is they are offered them after death because in this life there aren't enough women (let alone virgins) to go around. And if (as I think is likely) there aren't enough women to go around in the next life either, they'll all be dead, and not be able to complain where living souls can hear them.