What exactly Is Wrong with Polygamy anyway?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Look at the censuses. Jesus. As far as reliability goes google it. I’m sure there’s a +/- %, but since I’m not an omniscient god I can’t answer your question with exactitude.

- Doc

Your table doesn't show any data about single men and single women in their 20s.

I don't think the 1850s census was very reliable.

If you look at all the census data they have it broken down by age groups.

- Doc

[doubtingthomas]

If you look at all the census data they have it broken down by age groups.

- Doc

Link? Does it show that there were more men in their 20s than young women?

Back then, young women tended to marry older men. The age gap was probably bigger than it is today.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

If you look at all the census data they have it broken down by age groups.

- Doc

Link? Does it show that there were more men in their 20s than young women?

Back then, young women tended to marry older men. The age gap was probably bigger than it is today.

I’m not doing your leg work for you. You either care enough to find answers or not. Google ain’t that hard to work.

- Doc

[Moksha]

Like I said in previous post, criticizing polygamy by referring to the FLDS Church is like criticizing same sex marriage by referring to NAMBLA.

Most polygamous offshoots follow the classic Mormon model, although I've heard that Cody Brown's group does not indulge in child brides.

Child brides become more inevitable since the 19th Century sex trafficking pipeline from Western and Northern Europe is no longer functioning. No more brides fresh off the handcarts and trains.

If only more women from the main Church were willing to comply with the Principle, then child brides might become less common. Alas for the majority of women, polygamy remains anathema.

[Res Ipsa]

A table follows the quote above showing the men outnumbered women from 1850-1950. To whit:

Do you have evidence that single men in their 20s outnumbered young women in the church?

Was the US Census of the 1850s reliable? Did scientific surveys exists back then?

The Census wasn’t a scientific survey. It was a count.

[Marcus]

NO IT ISN'T! A monogamous woman has 100% of a relationship with her partner, since her partner isn't splitting his relationship with any other woman.

Ah, so monogamous women that have partners are the only ones that count! I've got it now. People like the Shirley Cook that used to live in my ward don't really exist, or maybe they're not really real humans if they do exist. They don't matter, right, Dr. Shades?

You have taken the comment completely out of context. Here is what Shades was responding to:

What is wrong with polygamy as a social norm is that it is either (a) permanent involuntary celibacy for most men or else (b) very young girls all marrying much older men. And in either case it is also (c) women having only a fraction of a monogamous relationship.

…. And the fraction mentioned in (c) is on average the same fraction we have today.

And the fraction mentioned in (c) is on average the same fraction we have today.

NO IT ISN'T! A monogamous woman has 100% of a relationship with her partner, since her partner isn't splitting his relationship with any other woman.

Your response to bits of the comment is nonsensical in the accurate context, and adds nothing to the discussion.

[KevinSim]

Kishkumen, how did the LDS practice of polygamy aggravate inequalities between the genders?

I think the math is pretty simple. If I as a husband have access to multiple wives, but my wives only have access to one husband, then those wives are really getting shorted on their access to a spousal partner.

Okay, I think I see what you're saying. But let me ask you a question. Let's just assume that our universe consists of eight people, four men and four women, and let's say two of the men (say Alex and Bob) are willing to make the sacrifices necessary for a successful marriage and three of the women (say Ann, Beth, and Cindy) are; the other woman and the other two men are not. The prevailing viewpoint seems to be that each of Alex and Bob should be allowed to marry two of the women; without loss of generality, we'll say they marry Ann and Beth respectively. Of course Cindy and Charles can also marry, but Charles doesn't meet Cindy's (not unreasonable) standards, or maybe Charles doesn't want to get married at all; for whatever reason, a marriage between Charles and Cindy doesn't work out. Similarly, Debbie and David don't end up married either. So the prevailing viewpoint has two married couples married and four single people, three of them single by choice, while Cindy would like to get married, but through no fault of her own she's destined to stay single the rest of her life.
My solution is to leave Alex married to just Ann, but to let Bob and Beth (if they want to) to take Cindy into their marriage.
If we ignore Charles, Debbie, and David (because they're pretty much single by choice), then how are the inequalities between the genders (for Alex, Ann, Beth, Bob, and Cindy) aggravated more by the prevailing viewpoint's solution than they are by my solution? Sure, in the former solution Ann and Beth are not getting shorted on their access to each's spousal partner, but Cindy doesn't even have a spousal partner, so how does that affect the inequalities between the genders for Cindy?

[dantana]

According to the Great Gods Pyramid Program, the way of the worlds is polygamy. So, it's all perfectly reasonable that Mr. Smith didn't have sexual relations with his wives as it was simply about Smith lining up brood-stock for the later life.

The only head scratcher though is Smith is the only one God had go this route - exclusive heavenly elopement. Everyone else has to line up their girls in the later life.

[Marcus]

The story that really broke my heart though, was one compiled by putting together several journals. A first wife, while in her early 30s and pregnant with her 7th child, had to endure the ignominy of her late-30s aged husband leaving for a week so he could court an 18 year old in an arranged vacation-type setting. He brought her home and married her, with his heavily pregnant wife in attendance, and then gave all his attention to his new bride. A couple of weeks later, she died shortly after a difficult childbirth. The consensus of all, including the extremely TBM compiler of the journal entries, was that she died of a broken heart.

That story haunts me still.

Good, Lord. That poor woman. Shame on that man and girl.

- Doc

I know. The pedigree charts don’t tell the whole story, but the journals are beginning to show the damage caused by polygamy. I wonder if it is the case that if Smith hadn’t been such a lech, the LDS community might have avoided the whole mess.

[KevinSim]

... The alternative to polygamy is not monogamy; the alternative is monogamy for the lucky, and celibacy for the unlucky. And that's an improvement?

You honestly think that if people are faced with a decision to be single or to be in a polygamous marriage, they will think polygamy is the better choice?

Marcus, I'm sure many will say it's not a better choice, but I've heard one woman, a single mother my wife and I hometaught back in the early 1990s in Seattle, say it would be a better choice.