Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

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Gadianton wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:07 am
this is from 2018, so there should have been plenty of time for the inquiry to happen. Did the inquiry happen Wallaby? If so, what was the result of the inquiry?

Atlantic Wallaby isn’t going to follow up on that, because it’s basically - surprise! - a bogus statistic.
There’s an often quoted statistic that there was a “4000% increase” in patient referrals to the Tavistock GIDS child and adolescent gender service in the decade from 2009 to 2019. This service consists of a network of clinics which serves the trans youth population in England and Wales. The statistic is often given itself (leaning heavily on innuendo) as reason enough to suspect that there are problems with social contagion causing kids to transition who are likely to later regret it.

Of course a 4000% increase for a service where previous iterations of the service were not nearly as available or widely known to the public (or to doctors who might provide referrals to the service), and which had radically increased capacity starting at the time when this increase is measured from does not tell us much . It’s hard to tell whether it would be possible to distinguish between the purported “social contagion” happening spreading through schools and Tumblr on the one hand, or if this is just what an improvement in access to an obscure and particularly underfunded corner of the NHS looks like. After all, if you start off dealing with a handful of patients with an experimental service and then roll it out nationwide, you would absolutely reasonably expect the number of patients to double, quadruple and more after your first handful until your service either reaches its own limits in terms of capacity or demand in terms of the number of patients in need of the service. This period of growth in the service corresponds directly with a period of the NHS commissioning information resources to inform and educate GPs, videos with young trans people talking about their experiences with the service and other awareness raising activities. So there’s plenty of historical reasons to expect more patients to successfully be accessing the service. The question is really whether the amount of demand we are seeing seems reasonable.

One rough way we can estimate this is by asking whether there is any way to estimate the number of new trans children we can expect to be brought into the world each year. And the answer is, “yes”. We have multiple estimates of the population of self identified trans adults over the last few years and these have oscillated between 0.2% and 1% at the most generous estimate. A recent census outcome in Canada gives us our best data yet:

0.33% of the population there identifies as trans or non-binary. Of these, 59% identify as transgender, and the other 41% identify as non binary, or as percentages of the whole population, 0.19% identify as transgender, and 0.14% as non-binary.

Now, while we cannot account for when young trans people are likely to discover they are trans, all trans people were born at some point and it seems reasonable to assume that the proportion of these births per year at least sets a reasonable “cap” to our expectation values for new trans youth discovering they need support from gender identity services. The majority of young people accessing GIDS do not get prescribed any sort of medical intervention and this service exists to offer access to therapeutic support as well as referral for medical transition support.

In England and Wales, the live birth rate for 2020 was 613,936. This was a particularly low year, and fell for the 5th year running. In 2010 the number of live births was 807,271.
So the proportion of young people who are likely to be reached within that, if the rates are similar to other developed countries like Canada, would be

0.33% × 613936 = 2026 children and adolescents (low estimate)

Or

0.33% × 807271 = 2688 children and adolescents(higher estimate based on young people who would now be 12 years old)

Coincidentally, the current rate of referrals to GIDS, roughly stable for the last 4 years, is between 2000–2600. The vaunted “4000% increase” is the referral caseload reaching and stabilising at the number of trans children we would roughly expect to see. Certainly at least in the same order of magnitude.
https://chican3ry.medium.com/how-many-t ... eead72651d
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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

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The increase was from 37 to around a thousand over the course of a decade.
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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

Post by Wallaby Lover »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:39 am
Wallaby Lover wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:32 am
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... n-wanting/

Anyone ready to explain the article and provide an explanation for why more young people are choosing to alter their sex? It fits into the liberal agenda, in my opinion.
Of course you think it does. You hate liberals and so you assign things you don’t like into your “liberal” dumpster. There is nothing about liberalism that says “everyone should have gender affirming surgery.”
There are numerous spiritual parallels between Mormonism and the transgender movement. Each teaches the existence of the inner self. The Commandments that the prophets of Mormonism have established become more readily observed after a Mormon starts to connect with the spirit that is inside their physical body. Obligations to behave a certain manner, including how one should dress, groom themselves, speak, and act, all in an effort to provide an outstanding representation of the Mormon movement. It is the same with the transgender movement. The moment a transgender person starts to embrace who they truly are on the inside, their inner self, they begin to change how they appear to better reflect the liberal movements values. Accepting who you are alone is insufficient in either movement. Although you may not like what I'm saying, it's the truth.

The liberal cult is a faith based movement. The liberal cult teaches we have an inner self and our inner self is sexed and that inner self can be different from the body.
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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

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Wallaby Lover wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:02 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:39 am


Of course you think it does. You hate liberals and so you assign things you don’t like into your “liberal” dumpster. There is nothing about liberalism that says “everyone should have gender affirming surgery.”
There are numerous spiritual parallels between Mormonism and the transgender movement. Each teaches the existence of the inner self. The Commandments that the prophets of Mormonism have established become more readily observed after a Mormon starts to connect with the spirit that is inside their physical body. Obligations to behave a certain manner, including how one should dress, groom themselves, speak, and act, all in an effort to provide an outstanding representation of the Mormon movement. It is the same with the transgender movement. The moment a transgender person starts to embrace who they truly are on the inside, their inner self, they begin to change how they appear to better reflect the liberal movements values. Accepting who you are alone is insufficient in either movement. Although you may not like what I'm saying, it's the truth.

The liberal cult is a faith based movement. The liberal cult teaches we have an inner self and our inner self is sexed and that inner self can be different from the body.
Translated:

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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

Post by canpakes »

Wallaby Lover wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:02 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:39 am


Of course you think it does. You hate liberals and so you assign things you don’t like into your “liberal” dumpster. There is nothing about liberalism that says “everyone should have gender affirming surgery.”
There are numerous spiritual parallels between Mormonism and the transgender movement. Each teaches the existence of the inner self. The Commandments that the prophets of Mormonism have established become more readily observed after a Mormon starts to connect with the spirit that is inside their physical body. Obligations to behave a certain manner, including how one should dress, groom themselves, speak, and act, all in an effort to provide an outstanding representation of the Mormon movement.
OK. Religion is a cult. And any political movement can be, in your mind, a religion. Like:

“There are numerous spiritual parallels between Trumpism and the transgender movement. Each teaches the existence of the inner self. The Commandments that the prophets of Trumpism have established become more readily observed after a Trumper starts to connect with the spirit that is inside their physical body. Obligations to behave a certain manner, including how one should dress, groom themselves, speak, and act, all in an effort to provide an outstanding representation of the Trumper movement.”

Given how uselessly non-specific this tactic is, folks can pretty much toss this aside.
It is the same with the transgender movement. The moment a transgender person starts to embrace who they truly are on the inside, their inner self, they begin to change how they appear to better reflect the liberal movements values. Accepting who you are alone is insufficient in either movement. Although you may not like what I'm saying, it's the truth.
I don’t see a ‘liberal movement values’ set that determines how a person should ‘gender themselves’ aside from letting the individual assert their own choice of pronouns. Past that, if a boy named Sue wants to go ‘all in’ and dress like you believe a Sue should look, then they’ve met what reflects the opposite of what you say, inasmuch as they represent themselves as (to match your terminology) ‘conservative movement values’ define how a Sue should appear.

Also, check your wording. When you say, ‘accepting who you are alone is insufficient’, what you’re really saying is that Person X accepting or defining who they are is insufficient for Person Y. In this case, if a transgendered individual walks up to you, says that they are a ‘they’, and you heckle them and refuse to address them as ‘they’, then who has the issue with acceptance of who someone ‘is’? Who gets to define that for Person X?
The liberal cult is a faith based movement. The liberal cult teaches we have an inner self and our inner self is sexed and that inner self can be different from the body.
Maybe science is a liberal cult?

Check out - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36419940/
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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

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Wallaby Lover wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:02 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:39 am


Of course you think it does. You hate liberals and so you assign things you don’t like into your “liberal” dumpster. There is nothing about liberalism that says “everyone should have gender affirming surgery.”
There are numerous spiritual parallels between Mormonism and the transgender movement. Each teaches the existence of the inner self. The Commandments that the prophets of Mormonism have established become more readily observed after a Mormon starts to connect with the spirit that is inside their physical body. Obligations to behave a certain manner, including how one should dress, groom themselves, speak, and act, all in an effort to provide an outstanding representation of the Mormon movement. It is the same with the transgender movement. The moment a transgender person starts to embrace who they truly are on the inside, their inner self, they begin to change how they appear to better reflect the liberal movements values. Accepting who you are alone is insufficient in either movement. Although you may not like what I'm saying, it's the truth.

The liberal cult is a faith based movement. The liberal cult teaches we have an inner self and our inner self is sexed and that inner self can be different from the body.
Cool story, bro. Too bad it's just a bunch of stuff you've said to justify your hatred of liberals. Here's what gives your nonsense away: "Accepting who you are alone is insufficient in either movement." Just think about that for a second. You are pretending to be in favor of people accepting who they are, but you set yourself up as sole judge of who they are. What you are actually saying is that people must accept who you declare that they are.

I'm a liberal. Have been for years. I've never heard any other liberal express anything like your cartoon version of liberals. And it's crystal clear that you never bother interacting with liberals because, if you did, you wouldn't make such ridiculous claims. Rather than actually making an attempt to understand transgender folks, you judge them through your Mormon glasses. Try taking them off for a change.

If you want to know how a liberal thinks, ask one instead of spewing out your bigoted bile. Here's a freebie. I don't believe in an inner self and an outer self. Whatever self is, it is a story created by processes that occur within the brain. And that story cannot be reduced to penises and vaginas or chromosomes. Self is an individual, subjective experience. As I'm not a mind reader, I have no basis to dictate to anyone else what their self "is." Dictating to others what their self must be is your thing. And the Mormon church's. You may not like it, but it's true. :lol:
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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

Post by Doctor Steuss »

One of the podcasts I listen to is called "Science Vs."

The gist of it is they look at the science on given topics, and try to sort it out from opinions and cultural norms. The host has a biomedical science and law degree from Monash University -- and the fantastic accent that comes along with it. I highly recommend their recent episode on the health myths and trends with "hydration."

One of the gimmicks of the show is at the end, they'll count up the number of citations from the episode. They did an episode earlier this year on transgender children, and the public "debate." Here's a link to the transcript, with the 189 citations.

About 4 years ago, they had done another episode on the subject. Here's a link to that transcript and sources.

It makes for a fairly easily digestible summary on the topic, and what the current science indicates.

One of the reasons I'm posting the transcripts (rather than the episode audio) is that the show, to its credit, will go back and correct things they find out that they got wrong in the show. For example, the older episode that aired on 12/13/18 was revised on 1/17/19 and 3/29/19. If you look at the transcript, you can find where they made changes because a survey was for adolescents, and not children.

I'm certain that Wallaby Lover will take the time, given his sincere desire for inquiry, to look at this. Naturally, others are welcome to as well.
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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

Post by Hawkeye »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:39 am
Wallaby Lover wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:32 am
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... n-wanting/

Anyone ready to explain the article and provide an explanation for why more young people are choosing to alter their sex? It fits into the liberal agenda, in my opinion.
Of course you think it does. You hate liberals and so you assign things you don’t like into your “liberal” dumpster. There is nothing about liberalism that says “everyone should have gender affirming surgery.”
I don't think minors who in my opinion are confused about their gender should be given any irreversible treatments such as puberty blockers, mastectomies. The fact that the parents don't have a say in whether these procedures are performed is wrong as well.

Sadly nobody could save this woman from herself.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life ... er-6552282
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

Post by Res Ipsa »

Hawkeye wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:03 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:39 am


Of course you think it does. You hate liberals and so you assign things you don’t like into your “liberal” dumpster. There is nothing about liberalism that says “everyone should have gender affirming surgery.”
I don't think minors who in my opinion are confused about their gender should be given any irreversible treatments such as puberty blockers, mastectomies. The fact that the parents don't have a say in whether these procedures are performed is wrong as well.

Sadly nobody could save this woman from herself.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life ... er-6552282
Strike one: puberty blockers are not irreversible treatments.
Strike two: Minors are not eligible for gender affirming surgery.
Strike three: Parents do have a say in medical treatment for minors.

I don't think it's the minors who are confused.
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we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.


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Re: Minister Orders Inquiry Into 4,000 % Rise In Children Wanting To Change Sex

Post by Res Ipsa »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 5:40 pm
One of the podcasts I listen to is called "Science Vs."

The gist of it is they look at the science on given topics, and try to sort it out from opinions and cultural norms. The host has a biomedical science and law degree from Monash University -- and the fantastic accent that comes along with it. I highly recommend their recent episode on the health myths and trends with "hydration."

One of the gimmicks of the show is at the end, they'll count up the number of citations from the episode. They did an episode earlier this year on transgender children, and the public "debate." Here's a link to the transcript, with the 189 citations.

About 4 years ago, they had done another episode on the subject. Here's a link to that transcript and sources.

It makes for a fairly easily digestible summary on the topic, and what the current science indicates.

One of the reasons I'm posting the transcripts (rather than the episode audio) is that the show, to its credit, will go back and correct things they find out that they got wrong in the show. For example, the older episode that aired on 12/13/18 was revised on 1/17/19 and 3/29/19. If you look at the transcript, you can find where they made changes because a survey was for adolescents, and not children.

I'm certain that Wallaby Lover will take the time, given his sincere desire for inquiry, to look at this. Naturally, others are welcome to as well.
Thanks for posting that, Dr. Steuss. Too bad Hawkeye didn't read it. ;)
he/him
we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.


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