What exactly Is Wrong with Polygamy anyway?

[huckelberry]

Jesus mother's age at his birth is not known so some people use Jewish custom to make a guess as to her age.

I understand that, however it’s irrelevant because getting pregnant by a god isn’t customary. You seem to be uncomfortable with the notion that a god would impregnate a 12-year-old girl, but that’s beside the point. There’s exactly zero Jewish customs of a god impregnating a Jewish girl so he can incarnate himself. 12 is just as viable a number as 24 since a one-off act by a deity isn’t an ethnic custom. The Jewish god isn’t abiding by any customs, so it’s a non sequitur to even bring up a customary age. Her being 12 is just as reasonable as her being 14, both of which are bananas vis a vis a god impregnating a young virgin girl (because purity or whatever). Perhaps it’s less gross or pervy if a god impregnates a 16-year-old instead of a 12-year-old?

- Doc

my only concern about 12 is thinking she should be old enough to safely carry and care for the child. I can see the situation as a burden and an unfair imposition. (Though there is the possibility that Mary loved her child.) I do not see any connection to custom as you point out. It wasn't customary.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I understand that, however it’s irrelevant because getting pregnant by a god isn’t customary. You seem to be uncomfortable with the notion that a god would impregnate a 12-year-old girl, but that’s beside the point. There’s exactly zero Jewish customs of a god impregnating a Jewish girl so he can incarnate himself. 12 is just as viable a number as 24 since a one-off act by a deity isn’t an ethnic custom. The Jewish god isn’t abiding by any customs, so it’s a non sequitur to even bring up a customary age. Her being 12 is just as reasonable as her being 14, both of which are bananas vis a vis a god impregnating a young virgin girl (because purity or whatever). Perhaps it’s less gross or pervy if a god impregnates a 16-year-old instead of a 12-year-old?

- Doc

my only concern about 12 is thinking she should be old enough to safely carry .. the child

That can’t be your only concern about a god impregnating a 12-year-old, no?

- Doc

[huckelberry]

my only concern about 12 is thinking she should be old enough to safely carry .. the child

That can’t be your only concern about a god impregnating a 12-year-old, no?

- Doc

I understand God to be without a body. omnipresent spirit who would have no sexual interests or other perverted interests that you seem to infer. You in the past expressed concern about her lack or limited choice. I can see that but it would not change with age. Life is full of stuff we do not choose.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

That can’t be your only concern about a god impregnating a 12-year-old, no?

- Doc

I understand God to be without a body. omnipresent spirit who would have no sexual interests or other perverted interests that you seem to infer.

Yeah, weird of me to think god picking a virginal tween to impregnate is weird. It’s not like most Jews believed Jesus’ claims, anyway. I suppose the argument can be made the Jewish god wanted to get in on that royal lineage, but there’s no reason to believe that was necessary to lend legitimacy to his plan. I guess retconning the Bible so that Mary was connected to David gives the narrative a woo factor, a sort of hierarchical permanence people subconsciously crave, so perhaps Jehovah couldn’t risk Mary getting pregnant, because … reasons.

- Doc

[doubtingthomas]

For all you know she could have been 24 though younger is more likely.

If a boss tells a 24 year old employee "You are going to be the mother of my child", would that be sexual harassment?

[doubtingthomas]

Mary was already betrothed so 12 is unlikely an age for her pregnancy.

Unlikely? So is it POSSIBLE that Mary was 12 or 13?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Mary was already betrothed so 12 is unlikely an age for her pregnancy.

Unlikely? So is it POSSIBLE that Mary was 12 or 13?

It was likely she was betrothed before that, married at ‘puberty’ which they considered to be ~12, and pregnant if she were pubescent. In fact, in Israel it wasn’t uncommon to betroth girls at whatever age before puberty, and in some cases they were married off beforehand which involved intercourse in order to consummate their union. The whole tradition treated girls as a commodity wherein their reproductive bits were zealously guarded as a tribal decree. Nasty business, for sure.

- Doc

[IHAQ]

If your Mormon fiancé fell pregnant, and you’d been celibate up to that point, would your first thought be “Immaculate conception, God impregnated her magically.”?

Why was that apparently Joseph’s first thought?

[huckelberry]

Unlikely? So is it POSSIBLE that Mary was 12 or 13?

It was likely she was betrothed before that, married at ‘puberty’ which they considered to be ~12, and pregnant if she were pubescent. In fact, in Israel it wasn’t uncommon to betroth girls at whatever age before puberty, and in some cases they were married off beforehand which involved intercourse in order to consummate their union. The whole tradition treated girls as a commodity wherein their reproductive bits were zealously guarded as a tribal decree. Nasty business, for sure.

- Doc

I am not liking this sort of arrangement but it has been the way the world has worked for a long time.
from widapedia entry arranged marriage:
"Child marriage, particularly 12 years old for mens, 9 years old for girls because they are entering teenages. Sperm production in men and menstrual period in women begin at these ages. Does not prepare or provide the individual much opportunity to make an informed, free choice about matrimony. These child marriages are implicitly arranged marriages.[34] In rural areas of East Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia and Latin America, poverty and lack of options, such as being able to attend school, leave little choice to children other than be in early arranged marriages.[27] Child marriages are primarily seen in areas of poverty. Parents arrange child marriages to ensure their child's financial security and reinforce social ties. They believe it offers protection and reduces the daughter's economic burden on the family due to how costly it is to feed, clothe and (optionally) educate a girl. By marrying their daughter to a good family, the parents improve their social status by establishing a social bond between each other.[35]

According to Warner, in nations with the high rates of child marriages, the marriage of the girl is almost always arranged by her parents or guardians.[36] The nations with the highest rates of arranged child marriages are: Niger, Chad, Mali, Bangladesh, Guinea, Central African Republic, Afghanistan, Yemen, India and Pakistan. Arranged child marriages are also observed in parts of the Americas.[37][38]"
//
Arranged marriages were very common throughout the world until the 18th century.[2] Typically, marriages were arranged by parents, grandparents or other close relatives and trusted friends. Some historical exceptions are known, such as courtship and betrothal rites during the Renaissance period of Italy[3] and Gandharva Vivah in the Vedic period of India.[4]

Marriage in Greco-Roman antiquity was based on social responsibility. Marriages were usually arranged by the parents; on occasion professional matchmakers were used. For the marriage to be legal, the woman's father or guardian had to give permission to a suitable man who could afford to marry. Orphaned daughters were usually married to cousins. The couple participated in a ceremony which included rituals such as removal of the veil. A man was typically limited to only one wife, though he could have as many mistresses as he could afford.[citation needed]

In China, arranged marriages (baoban hunyin, 包办婚姻) – sometimes called blind marriages (manghun, 盲婚) – were the norm before the mid-20th century. A marriage was a negotiation and decision between parents and other older members of two families. The boy and girl were typically told to get married, without a right to demur, even if they had never met each other until the wedding day.[5][6][7]

Arranged marriages were the norm in Russia before the early 20th century, most of which were endogamous.[8]

Until the first half of the 20th century, arranged marriages were common in migrant families in the United States.[9] They were sometimes called "picture-bride marriages" among Japanese-American immigrants because the bride and groom knew each other only through the exchange of photographs before the day of their marriage. These marriages among immigrants were typically arranged by parents or close relatives from the country of their origin. As immigrants settled in and melded into a new culture, arranged marriages shifted first to quasi-arranged marriages where parents or friends made introductions and the couple met before the marriage; over time, the marriages among the descendants of these immigrants shifted to autonomous marriages driven by individual's choice, dating and courtship preferences, and an increase in marrying outside of their own ethnic group.[9][10] Similar historical dynamics are claimed in other parts of the world.[11][12]

Arranged marriages have declined in prosperous countries with social mobility and increasing individualism; nevertheless, arranged marriages are still seen in countries of Europe and North America, among royal families, aristocrats and minority religious groups such as in placement marriage among Fundamentalist Mormon groups ....."

[huckelberry]

If your Mormon fiancé fell pregnant, and you’d been celibate up to that point, would your first thought be “Immaculate conception, God impregnated her magically.”?

Why was that apparently Joseph’s first thought?

I do not know any reason to think that would be his first thought. It wouldn't be my first thought. Incidentally the gospel story is that his first thought was clearly not this.