Abuse and Power by Carter Page

[ajax18]

Honorentheos what is your take on Comey asking Trump to talk with him after he was elected, telling him he wasn't under investigation then filling a 301 form on him and leaking that form to the media? When is leaking legal in your opinion? And is it ethical and necessary for prosecutors to lie to suspects to help get a conviction or set a perjury trap?

[honorentheos]

Honorentheos what is your take on Comey asking Trump to talk with him after he was elected, telling him he wasn't under investigation then filling a 301 form on him and leaking that form to the media? When is leaking legal in your opinion? And is it ethical and necessary for prosecutors to lie to suspects to help get a conviction or set a perjury trap?

Would you mind providing a source for what you are referring to here? I recall Trump inviting staff, including Comey, to have dinner with him where Trump asked for loyalty. I recall reports of Trump asking Comey to go public and confirm there wasn't an investigation. I don't recall what you are describing so seeing a source would be helpful.

[Gadianton]

Ajax, while we wait for H's answers, can you tell us how the prosecution of Manafort was the deep state and democratic corruption on full display but the the deep state was unable to prevent the forces of real justice from prosecuting that viper Michael Cohen?

[honorentheos]

That's interesting. I remember EAllusion did admit that Hillary Clinton was a flawed candidate. Do you think suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story by Twitter, Facebook, etc. influenced the 2020 election? Based on the type of voter you're describing I can't see how it didn't. But I haven't met anyone personally who was influenced by Russian trolls or the Hunter Biden laptop.

Every candidate is flawed. Negative campaigning is a process of magnifying those flaws.

As to the Hunter laptop, the better question is if the Hunter laptop actually should influence our understanding of Joe Biden's fitness for office. There is a long thread about it so I don't feel the need to repeat that. Put simply, I don't think the Hunter laptop was anything but an attempt by the Trump campaign to unduly influence the election, it was vetted by media at the time, and it didn't pass basic smell tests which largely were due to the providence and handling of the information. Details were gotten wrong, but the process can't be really faulted, in my opinion. The Trump campaign was controlling the information and that affected how it was treated. I personally appreciate the media sources learning lessons from 2016 and not providing free aid to campaigns. Feel free to argue that it was meaningful information, but unless you can improve on the arguments made in the other thread I imagine all it represents to most is a vague idea that someone was trying to protect Joe Biden when in reality it was an attempt to protect an election from foreign influence. Hunter's activities as ultimately presented have no bearing on Joe Biden. Every attempt to tie the emails and other information to him in a scandalous manner are fabricated. Hunter's private porn isn't relevant to Joe Biden's ability to serve.

[honorentheos]

This book isn't challenging my worldview as it's apparently a rough read meant to justify Page and bring in some $$$. I offered to read it, not because I expect it to be worth the time spent to do so, but because the opportunity to have a good faith discussion on a topic of your choice would be on the table.

I'd be happy to hear any of your reactions to what you read so I can understand your side of the story. I know it's going to be slow moving since we both have jobs but I'll try to pop in and give my best effort to stay on point.

My view of Carter Page is he was a mediocre ambitious Gen-Xer who developed a Russia fetish who was targeted by Russian spies to see what they could get from him. Those spies found his ambition useful but his knowledge or access lacking. He was prone to padding his resume which likely resulted in his being recruited by the Trump campaign as well (Trump buys cheap). He saw it as a chance to finally rise to great status and tap into the big leagues of international business but this fell apart due to his mediocrity. His legitimate entanglements with Russians were conflated by US intelligence trying to determine what, exactly, was going on within the Trump circle with regards to Russia, with mistakes being made that ultimately left him without friends among the Trumpers and his dreams dashed. He became useful to the Trump campaign as a pawn in the game of thrones that is D.C. politics, and he wrote a book that you got around to buying when it was recommended by Audible after listening to Paul Manafort's book.

Is there any reason I should still read the book?

[ajax18]

Meadows claims his committee uncovered an April 10, 2017, text from Strzok to Page in Justice Department documents saying: “I had literally just gone to find this phone to tell you I want to talk to you about media leak strategy with DOJ before you go.”

Carter Page also mentions this text message between Strzok and Lisa Page, an FBI attorney. Do you think this is any indication of systemic partisan bias within the FBI?

[ajax18]

Ajax, while we wait for H's answers, can you tell us how the prosecution of Manafort was the deep state and democratic corruption on full display but the the deep state was unable to prevent the forces of real justice from prosecuting that viper Michael Cohen?

I guess your right that it doesn't always work out as perpetrator Democrat, victim Republican. But it worked out that way 17/17 times in the FBIs warrants against Carter Page and the failure of the FBI to follow proper procedure for obtaining the warrants as determined by the Horowitz report

[Dr Exiled]

The lap top was verified as coming from Hunter Biden:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eting.html

Version given to FBI by computer repair shop verified and no tampering [by Russia]:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-bid ... lysis/#app

"Big guy" is Joe Biden:

https://nypost.com/2022/07/27/hunter-bi ... er-laptop/

[honorentheos]

The lap top was verified as coming from Hunter Biden:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eting.html

Version given to FBI by computer repair shop verified and no tampering [by Russia]:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-bid ... lysis/#app

"Big guy" is Joe Biden:

https://nypost.com/2022/07/27/hunter-bi ... er-laptop/

None of the above is relevant. Someone in an email calling Joe Biden the big guy doesn't mean Joe Biden was in on a deal with Chinese business. You know better, lawyer.

[ajax18]

Thank you for your answer Honorentheos. I did read it. I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats with policies as bad as Biden who don't carry the same baggage so maybe it's not important. But I'm still undecided on whether or not Russia or China could blackmail Biden over stuff like this coming out.