The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

[_Dr. Shades]

This is really a bombshell discovery, Doctor Scratch (vis-à-vis the M2C theory originally being a hoax). Thanks for bringing it to our attention! The old FARMS Review muckraked endlessly to discredit the source of any idea outside of Mopologetic orthodoxy, but suddenly the rules change when it's their pet theory under the microscope.

Typical.

As an aside, my instincts are telling me that you're going to have one heck of a hard time trimming down the annual Top 10 Happenings list to a mere, uh, 10 this year.

[_Philo Sofee]

This is really a bombshell discovery, Doctor Scratch (vis-à-vis the M2C theory originally being a hoax). Thanks for bringing it to our attention! The old FARMS Review muckraked endlessly to discredit the source of any idea outside of Mopologetic orthodoxy, but suddenly the rules change when it's their pet theory under the microscope.

Typical.

As an aside, my instincts are telling me that you're going to have one heck of a hard time trimming down the annual Top 10 Happenings list to a mere, uh, 10 this year.

I vote he goes ahead and does the 20 top happenings! What a year, what a year so far!

[_Doctor Scratch]

Wow, that last quote you have there seems like an endorsement of the Inspired Fiction Theory.

Aside from that, the revelation on the two-Cumorah fraud is mind blowing, and probably even a watershed moment. Notice how many Phds are endorsing SReed. (It looks like long-time friend of SeN Black Jesus Loves You has received his Phd now. I wonder if Professor Lemming was his advisor?)

I get what the apologists are saying, "who cares who first came up with 2+2 = 4 if it's true?" But that's not what's going on here. In the example of 2+2, the answer is readily, independently, verifiable. With the LGT, we're talking about something extraordinarily speculative, a real imaginative la-la land-fest, and the shady origins make quite a difference. please read on to learn why.

I was always under the impression that here was Sorenson, studying the pages of the Book of Mormon and studiously taking notes. He stops to drum his pencil against his desktop, and then he scratches at his chin. It doesn't quite add up. The walking distances, and this and that, and then the light bulb comes on -- like Isaac Newton sitting under an apple tree, an apple falls and strikes the crown of his head. Aha!

But no, it wasn't like that. Here's this theory already circulating in the quasi-Mormon political underground that was fabricated by an RLDS scholar in a flight of madness; a bid to re-image the faith in order to avoid losing the artifacts of their holy lands. Some young intellectuals find it hip and throw in, adopting it as such.

Oh sure, none of that proves that it's false, but here's a more accurate analogy than the 2+2 example. Imagine if Mark Hoffman produced a bunch of documents and never got caught. Suppose that the documents found their way into the hands of the apologists who try and make sense out of them and begin to find all kinds of justifications for the documents and substantially build their body of scholarship based on them. Now suppose it's found out that they are "fraudulent". But hold up: just because Hoffman was pulling all this out of his backside doesn't mean it's not true. Maybe he had some kind of brilliant insight and didn't know his own strength, as it were. Maybe the Lord had a "mysterious way" of getting the information available. Whatever the case may be, here are tapirs and battle boars and "ideas being passed among the elite" and bee-keeping; this all doesn't just go away, and it all seems to work out for the < 10 hard-core LGTers.

Sure, it isn't automatically invalidated, but it's a far cry from 2+2. It's more like an idea from a imaginative hoax that went viral for a while than real plodding research. No wonder the theory pretty much died in 2011, with no young researchers carrying the torch. (Smoot etc. aren't carrying the torch by believing it; carrying the torch requires real published research to build up the theory)

This is absolutely a watershed moment. Check out DCP in a comment from 2 days ago:

SReed, what is your problem?

That you promote a RLDS Fraud.

There's nothing particularly "RLDS" about limited-geographical models, whatever their origins.

And they're not fraudulent. Whether they're correct or not will be determined by comparing them to the geographical and archaeological data, not by hypverventilating about tenuous historical connections to long-dead members of the RLDS church.

"They"? The RLDS theory *was* absolutely fraudulent: SReed's post made no doubt about that. So, are we going to see some sort of Mopologetic spin here, where they actually try to defend the fraudulent RLDS theory as something that was actually posited in earnest? This really is such a terrific blow to them. They have spent so much effort insisting that the Book of Mormon absolutely must be true history, and that if it is not, the entire edifice of the Church will crumble. They've even accused/insinuated that other LDS are in a state of apostasy for *not* openly siding with the "true history" idea. Now, though, we see that their main theory for the reality of the BoM--i.e., the LGT--was knowingly connected to this RLDS fraud. Well, let me back up a moment--is "knowingly" the correct descriptor? What if they looked at this theory but were too dumb/hopeful to recognize it as a fraud? Maybe I'm being too generous, and just want to give them an out, but I guess it's a remote possibility. Then again, the fact that Magleby and Welch et al. were buying up property connected to the fraud... Well, that just seems like too much of a coincidence.

So, yes: it appears that they knew it was a fraud all along but still chose to adopt it as their main theory. Their entire basis for believing that the Book of Mormon is real history is based on something that they themselves knew was a fraud.

[_Philo Sofee]

Dr. Scratch
So, yes: it appears that they knew it was a fraud all along but still chose to adopt it as their main theory. Their entire basis for believing that the Book of Mormon is real history is based on something that they themselves knew was a fraud.

Yes, well a fraud (the Book of Mormon) is based upon a fraud (the Mesoamerican limited geography model). All brought to you by a fraud of a prophet. I mean you can't possibly in any world make this stuff up!

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Doctor Scratch nailed it (14 years ago)!

[TwoCumorahFraud]

So, yes: it appears that they knew it was a fraud all along but still chose to adopt it as their main theory. Their entire basis for believing that the Book of Mormon is real history is based on something that they themselves knew was a fraud.

Yes, well a fraud (the Book of Mormon) is based upon a fraud (the Mesoamerican limited geography model). All brought to you by a fraud of a prophet. I mean you can't possibly in any world make this stuff up!

The Book of Mormon is not a fraud. It’s true. The current LDS Mesos used an incorrect M2C geography theory (fraudulent) originating in Independence, MO in April 1917.

It was rejected by the RLDS First Presidency November 15, 1921. Dr. Frederick M. Smith, was the then third President of the RLDS Church. He was the son of Joseph Smith III, and a grandson of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. The Smith family knew where the actual Hill Cumorah is located: New York.

Dr. Frederick M. Smith acquired a PhD in psychology. Thus his title. He knew crazy when he saw it.

See the image. Members of the RLDS Church were asking the RLDS First Presidency why a member of their First Quorum of Seventy was going around teaching a new geography theory. This is their response:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QCk-c1qsF-I/ ... 5%2BPM.png

Dr. Smith’s second cousin President Joseph Fielding Smith also rejected the theory. This is lost on DCP, Peter Pan and the other Peanut Butter Disney Characters promoting M2C.

Their so-called scholarly research is to take Book of Mormon place names and move them around on a map of Tehuantepec until they fit to their liking.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Yes, well a fraud (the Book of Mormon) is based upon a fraud (the Mesoamerican limited geography model). All brought to you by a fraud of a prophet. I mean you can't possibly in any world make this stuff up!

The Book of Mormon is not a fraud. It’s true.

Now do the Book of Abraham!



- Doc

[TwoCumorahFraud]

The Book of Mormon is not a fraud. It’s true.

Now do the Book of Abraham!



- Doc

Are you seriously basing your non-testimony of Joseph Smith on the teachings of MoPologists, when their teachings originated from F.A.R.M.S. teaching fake RLDS Book of Mormon Geography? As I’ve pointed out?

I’m critical of the MoPos as you. But that’s because they teach fake stuff: M2C and PeepingRock in a Hat dictation as translation. But just because they’re teachers of false crap, doesn’t mean the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham are incorrect.

You may enjoy this about Egyptian temples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F19d5ClZMWo

[drumdude]

Now do the Book of Abraham!



- Doc

Are you seriously basing your non-testimony of Joseph Smith on the teachings of MoPologists, when their teachings originated from F.A.R.M.S. teaching fake RLDS Book of Mormon Geography? As I’ve pointed out?

I’m critical of the MoPos as you. But that’s because they teach fake stuff: M2C and PeepingRock in a Hat dictation as translation. But just because they’re teachers of false crap, doesn’t mean the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham are incorrect.

You may enjoy this about Egyptian temples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F19d5ClZMWo

What do heartlanders base the claim that Joseph didn’t use the seer stone on?

MoPologists seem forced to admit that one at a heavy price, due to the weight of the historical evidence for it.

Rusty even sheepishly put his face in the hat.

[Marcus]

Yes, well a fraud (the Book of Mormon) is based upon a fraud (the Mesoamerican limited geography model). All brought to you by a fraud of a prophet. I mean you can't possibly in any world make this stuff up!

The Book of Mormon is not a fraud. It’s true.

No. It's not "true."