Secular folks should worry.

[MG 2.0]

[MG is] full of crap.

And he's quite a waste of bandwidth.

Well Gee, shucks guys. I’m sure you’re going to say the same about Stephen Meyer.

Ya’ just don’t like folks that disrupt your worldview and step on your toes.

Regards,
MG

[Moksha]

MG, should science receive an outright ban on being taught in Utah public schools by the State Legislature?

Of course not. But I also think that the ideas of folks like Stephen Meyer ought to be entered into the curriculum strands to give students the opportunity to hear what non-Darwinists have to say about life origins, evolution and the like.

What about a section on homeopathy for the mandatory health science class?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB7V4us ... M&index=22

[MG 2.0]

Of course not. But I also think that the ideas of folks like Stephen Meyer ought to be entered into the curriculum strands to give students the opportunity to hear what non-Darwinists have to say about life origins, evolution and the like.

What about a section on homeopathy for the mandatory health science class?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB7V4us ... M&index=22

That was a weird response. Are you sure you linked to the YouTube video you meant to?

What did that have to do with Stephen Meyer and his conversation with Michael Shermer and what might ACTUALLY be appropriate for inclusion in Utah State curriculum standards?

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

MG, should science receive an outright ban on being taught in Utah public schools by the State Legislature?

Of course not. But I also think that the ideas of folks like Stephen Meyer ought to be entered into the curriculum strands to give students the opportunity to hear what non Darwinists have to say about life origins, evolution and the like.

https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer ... -universe/

Excellent podcast, by the way. Meyer gives Shermer a great discussion.

The problem is that GenZ and their parents, and their parents…have been indoctrinated with Darwinism to the exclusion of other ideas that have merit. So then we have a generation going into the world thinking that theism is silly. That, in turn, impacts their worldview in regards to government, culture, morality, etc.

Regards,
MG

Wow. I was writing a post in response, when I realized how utterly ridiculous MG's comment is. MG is calling people "silly" if they don't match his belief system. He is calling them "indoctrinated" in science if his nonscientific beliefs are not included. He is saying scientific results should be presented to all in combination with his religious beliefs, because in his mind, his religious beliefs "have merit."

He really needs no help in explaining how untenable his position is.

[MG 2.0]

[MG] is saying scientific results should be presented to all in combination with his religious beliefs, because in his mind, his religious beliefs "have merit."

No I didn’t. Up to your old tricks. Twist and turn things around.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

MG is calling people "silly" if they don't match his belief system.

Essentially, this is what you’re doing.

Have you listened to the Michael Shermer podcast I linked to? Do you think Stephen Meyer’s arguments “silly” and without merit?

Do you think it appropriate that his views be presented along with orthodox Darwinism in Utah State curriculum and that of other states?

Why or why not?

Is it appropriate that students are only being presented with one scientific theory and/ or point of view?

Does this impact their worldview? Does that matter?

I don’t expect that you will answer my questions, but I thought I’d throw them your way.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

MG, should science receive an outright ban on being taught in Utah public schools by the State Legislature?

Of course not. But I also think that the ideas of folks like Stephen Meyer ought to be entered into the curriculum strands to give students the opportunity to hear what non Darwinists have to say about life origins, evolution and the like.

https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer ... -universe/

Excellent podcast, by the way. Meyer gives Shermer a great discussion.

The problem is that GenZ and their parents, and their parents…have been indoctrinated with Darwinism to the exclusion of other ideas that have merit. So then we have a generation going into the world thinking that theism is silly. That, in turn, impacts their worldview in regards to government, culture, morality, etc.

Regards,
MG

*bump in order to bring the link forward so that Marcus can listen to the podcast if she chooses to.

[Doctor Steuss]

Regarding Stephen Meyer, I highly recommend the absolute dismantling Charles Marshall did in Science, reviewing Meyer's last book.

Not sure what other articles are in this issue, but it's likely worth the $15 for a full print copy if you don't have University access, or someone who has OpenAthens you can ask a favor of.

The whole thing helps illustrate how dependent Meyer (and his followers) are on scientific illiteracy, and obliviousness to current scholarship. It all boils down to what they think the theories are, and what they think the consensus is regarding specific aspects and components of theories, rather than what the theories actually are.

The only reasons Meyer's embarrassing pseudoscience is given primacy over things like flat earth theory, or ancient aliens theory, is flat earth theory and ancient aliens aren't manufactured wedge issues... yet.


ETA: Forgot to link to Marshall. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1244515

[honorentheos]

And he's quite a waste of bandwidth.

Well Gee, shucks guys. I’m sure you’re going to say the same about Stephen Meyer.

Ya’ just don’t like folks that disrupt your worldview and step on your toes.

Regards,
MG

Alien pyramid builders aren't disrupting worldviews nor affecting the quality of education in our country because they aren't in your book of semitic myths.

Your comment about the standards committee meeting was wrong. The nutjob inserted anti-science religionist garbage in at almost every point taking up a full work day as the folks working with her proved remarkably tolerant and patient.

Again, you're full of crap.

[honorentheos]

Here in Utah, the State Board of Education had ~6 hour debate whether or not to teach The Flood.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Utah/comments/ ... hether_or/

As science. The Biblical global flood. As science.

-_-

- Doc

OK. I gotta jump back in on this and then hopefully take a breather.

Doc’s statement is false. I listened to the full section in question. It goes on max ten to fifteen minutes, if that. The longer breadth and depth of the ‘discussion’ wasn’t a discussion. It was simply going through strands of Utah State curriculum and clarifying and/or excising sections/words and approving or taking off amendments.

A necessary and important work to do. It wasn’t a long winded discussion on creationism vs. evolution and/ or uniformitarianism, etc. One board member had a question about entertaining an amendment which stated the theory of Catastrophism.

To bring into the curriculum an alternate view. Sheesh.

Catastrophism-
1. The doctrine that major changes in the earth's crust result from sudden catastrophes, such as the impact of a large meteor, rather than from gradual evolutionary processes.
2. The doctrine that changes in the earth's fauna and flora result from major catastrophic events that cause the die-off of many organisms and are followed by the appearance of new types of organisms.

And that was it. The Bible received a passing mention.

NO BIG DEAL.

The argument made here on this thread is that this ‘back and forth’ discussion on an amendment should never have even been a point of discussion while these folks were involved in creating final curriculum strands and lessons.

And then comparisons were made with ludicrous examples that have absolutely nothing to do with scientific endeavor and/or theories.

As I said earlier…crazy town.

Some folks here…secular humanist progressive liberals want to shut down alternative points of view because they don’t fit their worldview. RATHER than allowing for discussion and resolution.

THAT, folks, is dangerous.

There was a whole lot of hay being made out of nothing by Doc and others. That is ANOTHER lame strategy that is practiced ad nauseam around these parts.

I’ve learned SO much about the minds of ex Mormons as I’ve participated on this thread. Folks will lie, create strawmen, do hatchet jobs with context, and misinterpret (purposfully methinks) and misrepresent…and just be plain dishonest.

Again, crazy town.

I again invite others and those that are lurking to go back and read the thread or browse through it and see for yourself what I’m talking about.

This place IS crazy town. Truth is a rare commodity it seems.

OK. Now I think I’ll take a bit of a break and check back at a later time.

I expect I’ve ruffled a few feathers.

Go DeSantis!!! Protect parental rights!!!

Disney, shame on you.

G’nite.

Regards,
MG

All of that? Complete BS.