a possible tragedy

[2bizE]

Yes, I understand Yellowstone. It is our cultures that deliver the shame and guilt that is often not felt outside our culture. LDS missionaries buying cheeseburgers on the true and only real meaning of Sabbath (Friday Sundown to Saturday Sundown) do not understand the shame and guilt felt by the Jewish fellow for buying the same meal on the same Sabbath.

Many years ago when I was in my late 30s, I remember being in line at a McDonald’s. I admired the ease in which A kid about 10 years old ahead of me ordered an iced tea. No shame. No guilt. No feelings of betrayal of trust. Something so innocent, but in my culture carries baggage, mental anguish and torment.

[Chap]

It is our cultures that deliver the shame and guilt that is often not felt outside our culture. LDS missionaries buying cheeseburgers on the true and only real meaning of Sabbath (Friday Sundown to Saturday Sundown) do not understand the shame and guilt felt by the Jewish fellow for buying the same meal on the same Sabbath.

Religious Jews believe that non-Jews are not obliged to observe the kashrut [dietary rules], nor are they obliged to observe the Sabbath. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

[yellowstone123]

What would the look on the missionaries face be if the the guy turned around and offered to discuss their religion with him on Sunday at 10:00 am and he would buy the coffee and the bagel.

[Chap]

What would the look on the missionaries face be if the the guy turned around and offered to discuss their religion with him on Sunday at 10:00 am and he would buy the coffee and the bagel.

I am not LDS and never have been, but I have hung around on this board long enough to know the likely answer to your question. The missionaries would simply smile and explain that they had important religious obligations at that time, and say something like "If you are interested in learning about our religion, coming to one of our services is a great way to find out more". On the coffee, they'd just say (as they would have done hundreds of times before in their lives) "In our religion we don't take drinks with caffeine, but if we can have a herbal tisane with the bagels, you're on! Bagels are great!!". What else would you expect from missionaries?

[yellowstone123]

True and fair.

[2bizE]

It is our cultures that deliver the shame and guilt that is often not felt outside our culture. LDS missionaries buying cheeseburgers on the true and only real meaning of Sabbath (Friday Sundown to Saturday Sundown) do not understand the shame and guilt felt by the Jewish fellow for buying the same meal on the same Sabbath.

Religious Jews believe that non-Jews are not obliged to observe the kashrut [dietary rules], nor are they obliged to observe the Sabbath. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

The OP was discussing religious culture and the shame that it brings, which is not overtly seen by religious cultures. His comparison was between a Jewish fellow and Mormon missionaries, with the missionaries not even thinking of the cultural difficulties of a Jew purchasing a cheeseburger on the Sabbath. It would be similar to a Jew walking by a coffee shop on Sunday and seeing a Mormon sitting down having a cup of coffee for the first time. The Mormon wears the cultural baggage of not only drinking coffee, but also buying it on Sunday. The new walking by thinks nothing of it because it is out of his cultural preview.

[Chap]

I’m not following the point of your examples with the missionaries and the Jewish person.

- Doc

Despite the attempts at explanation, I am still with you in looking for the point of the OP, apart from the obvious fact that (surprise!) people who don't know anything about religion X are unlikely to realise the mental stress caused to someone brought up in religion X when they transgress its commandments.

I mean, who knew?

[edited for typo]

[yellowstone123]

I agree..!

[Marcus]

I’m not following the point of your examples with the missionaries and the Jewish person.

- Doc

Despite the attempts at explanation, I am still with you in looking for the point of the OP, apart from the obvious fact that (surprise!) people who don't know anything about religion X are unlikely to realise the mental stress caused to someone brought up in religion X when they transgress its commandments.

I mean, who knew?

[edited for typo]

Agreed. The 'uncontrollable sobbing' mentioned in the OP seems to be a bigger issue than any cultural differences. Why the OP focused on culture instead of that seems odd.

In the end though, it's a made up, inflammatory story, apparently told only with the intent to shame. What's the point?

[huckelberry]

Despite the attempts at explanation, I am still with you in looking for the point of the OP, apart from the obvious fact that (surprise!) people who don't know anything about religion X are unlikely to realise the mental stress caused to someone brought up in religion X when they transgress its commandments.

I mean, who knew?

[edited for typo]

Agreed. The 'uncontrollable sobbing' mentioned in the OP seems to be a bigger issue than any cultural differences. Why the OP focused on culture instead of that seems odd.

In the end though, it's a made up, inflammatory story, apparently told only with the intent to shame. What's the point?

I was wondering what the point of the story is as well. Obviously the fellow did not kill himself because he broke Jewish rules. He was seriously disturbed prior to the story by things not mentioned.

I think this story hides problems behind a screen. It points to guilt over the variety of cultural expectations and rules and pretends that is the problem when deeper and more serious things are involved. (life disappointments, family conflict, alcohol, drugs would be likely suspects)