Not only that, but Mormons believe in a God that works inside the physical limits of the universe.
3 days of brain death is a lot of entropy. Mathematically impossible to recover, even with advanced alien Mormon God technology.
At that point you’re back to the traditional magic God that can do anything without limits.
Its a tough conundrum I'd say, no matter how you slice it. What if it were that Jesus never really died? He was only thought to have died by some. A couple of days rest and it's quite possible he got up and walked around again. That certainly seems possible to me. I'd suggest the only reason to assume resurrection is faith. In terms of corresponding with reality? I don't see it very probable. And with no viable reason to accept it, on historical grounds, believers have a mountain to climb if they hope it to be a credible position to hold.
There are a ton of adorable stories in human history wherein magical things happen, like resurrection. I don't find it utterly useless to think about, nor useless for people to explore the context of such stories. But I doubt I'd ever get back to this brand of special pleading wherein some particular story should be taken seriously above all others, just because faith...or because so many want it to be true. Faith is maintained through special pleading. So be it. Not much we can do about that.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Not only that, but Mormons believe in a God that works inside the physical limits of the universe.
3 days of brain death is a lot of entropy. Mathematically impossible to recover, even with advanced alien Mormon God technology.
At that point you’re back to the traditional magic God that can do anything without limits.
Its a tough conundrum I'd say, no matter how you slice it. What if it were that Jesus never really died? He was only thought to have died by some. A couple of days rest and it's quite possible he got up and walked around again. That certainly seems possible to me. I'd suggest the only reason to assume resurrection is faith. In terms of corresponding with reality? I don't see it very probable. And with no viable reason to accept it, on historical grounds, believers have a mountain to climb if they hope it to be a credible position to hold.
There are a ton of adorable stories in human history wherein magical things happen, like resurrection. I don't find it utterly useless to think about, nor useless for people to explore the context of such stories. But I doubt I'd ever get back to this brand of special pleading wherein some particular story should be taken seriously above all others, just because faith...or because so many want it to be true. Faith is maintained through special pleading. So be it. Not much we can do about that.
Also, the story seems secondary to Christ’s message. I, for one, think that Jesus wanted us to focus on what he actually said in the New Testament. Not what others said about him once he was gone.
Lots of Christians miss this message, but Mormons are particularly bad, because they believe Jesus didn’t have the last word.
Everything you need to know about living a good moral life is easily found in just a handful of Jesus’s words. It’s not complicated, but it is difficult to live up to. That’s probably why Mormonism invented shortcuts like the second annointing, and Catholicism invented indulgences.
Not only that, but Mormons believe in a God that works inside the physical limits of the universe.
3 days of brain death is a lot of entropy. Mathematically impossible to recover, even with advanced alien Mormon God technology.
At that point you’re back to the traditional magic God that can do anything without limits.
drumdude, I am not sure that the traditional God can do anything without limits even with the insulting term magic. Tradition says all power has its source in God,God has all power. If you take a step back you might hear , God can do whatever God can do.You might consider that a God using only technology might be able to reconstruct a brain if starting with a complete map of the brain to be reconstructed. It would not be a repair job on the deteriorated brain but a complete remake.
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I see your point and agree that Jesus message has value priority over his story though I see them as linked.
Not only that, but Mormons believe in a God that works inside the physical limits of the universe.
3 days of brain death is a lot of entropy. Mathematically impossible to recover, even with advanced alien Mormon God technology.
At that point you’re back to the traditional magic God that can do anything without limits.
drumdude, I am not sure that the traditional God can do anything without limits even with the insulting term magic. Tradition says all power has its source in God,God has all power. If you take a step back you might hear , God can do whatever God can do.You might consider that a God using only technology might be able to reconstruct a brain if starting with a complete map of the brain to be reconstructed. It would not be a repair job on the deteriorated brain but a complete remake.
...
I see your point and agree that Jesus message has value priority over his story though I see them as linked.
The lower g in God argument leaves me really wondering how this can be so. And if it is it is almost like the old song Jesus take the wheel. But Jesus didn't really know how to drive.
Rivendale, I am sorry but I do not understand your reference to lower g in God argument. Perhaps if I had sung that song you mention it would have helped but not having sung it I am left clueless. I hope you could explain what you mean.
I am sure if Jesus had come upon a vw microbus on the way to Jerusalem he would not have known what to do with it. He would now of course.
What is insulting about the term? It’s the best way to describe what is happening with any of these supernatural claims. I don’t mean slight of hand, I mean suspension of reality, logic, a God-like power to accomplish anything without limits.
I don’t think a Christian would object to Zeus flinging lightning bolts around being described as magic, and they wouldn’t be insulting Zeus.
I know DCP hates people saying magic, but I think that’s because he feels uncomfortable with the plain truth that his religion invokes magical thinking.
Rivendale, I am sorry but I do not understand your reference to lower g in God argument. Perhaps if I had sung that song you mention it would have helped but not having sung it I am left clueless. I hope you could explain what you mean.
I am sure if Jesus had come upon a vw microbus on the way to Jerusalem he would not have known what to do with it. He would now of course.
The lower g reference is a god that is equivalent to a 12 year old using a magnifying glass on an ant hill. How or why you would follow some alien that somehow reached the capability to create enormous civilizations that routinely set up a system that essentially ends in the death of its occupants is just bizarre. That isn't the robust idea of this. He is doing this because he can and still oblivious to the rules that govern his actions. That is lower god. A 12 year old in a basement.......
What is insulting about the term? It’s the best way to describe what is happening with any of these supernatural claims. I don’t mean slight of hand, I mean suspension of reality, logic, a God-like power to accomplish anything without limits.
I don’t think a Christian would object to Zeus flinging lightning bolts around being described as magic, and they wouldn’t be insulting Zeus.
I know DCP hates people saying magic, but I think that’s because he feels uncomfortable with the plain truth that his religion invokes magical thinking.
drumdude, then why do you choose to use the term magic instead of some more traditional phrase such as divine power or act of God?
I suppose I might be put off by the word magic because I do not believe what you intend refer to,'I mean suspension of reality, logic, a God-like power to accomplish anything without limits."
I haven't seen where. I've read the scholarship and have read the pop books like Erhman's. I've critiqued his book here to some degree of depth. I've interacted with some of the most ardent historicists. I'm not sure what you think you're proving by saying these things.
All of that said, I'm still quite interested in any credible case someone can present. If you have it, please stop dodging and provide something.
I really like you, stem, but I think you are on a completely different quest from a historical one.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
