Three Questions (Split from, ‘Vogel Responds …’)

[drumdude]

That seems to be the main objection to the Catholic Church. They make the same claim that the “great apostasy” never happened.

Thank you for your response. So, are you saying that even if the CofJCofLDS (yeah, I know, a few name changes along the way…) was restored. Then, being that lost truths and authority were brought back to the earth after having been corrupt/lost (fuller knowledge of God and His plan being number one), an apostasy occurred within a very short amount of time and we’re back to square one?

How long was it before the Catholic Church went into apostasy?

[MG 2.0]

Now that the bellyachers have had their say, may we get back to the conversation. I was enjoying the back and forth with drumdude.

Thanks!

Jump in and add something though. Please.

As I said earlier, I have a great deal of interest in what others believe and why they believe it. Unfortunately, I have very little idea as to what a number of folks here actually believe. Just what they don’t believe.

That actually holds very little interest for me.

I think I know a bit more about drumdude. I think he is a Christian in his own way. More or less liberal in his views of Christ, but also supportive of His teachings as he understands them.

I appreciate knowing where he’s at in his worldview and religious (can I call it that, drumdude?) views.

That’s all good. All this other stuff…word twisting, etc…is a waste of everyone’s time.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Thank you for your response. So, are you saying that even if the CofJCofLDS (yeah, I know, a few name changes along the way…) was restored. Then, being that lost truths and authority were brought back to the earth after having been corrupt/lost (fuller knowledge of God and His plan being number one), an apostasy occurred within a very short amount of time and we’re back to square one?

How long was it before the Catholic Church went into apostasy?

Over a period of time.

From Wikipedia:

Over time, schisms have disrupted the unity of Christianity. The Catholic Church considers that major divisions occurred in c. 144 with Marcionism, 318 with Arianism, 451 with the Oriental Orthodox, 1054 to 1449 (see East–West Schism) during which time the Orthodox Churches of the East parted ways with the Western Church over doctrinal issues (see the filioque) and papal primacy, and in 1517 with the Protestant Reformation, of which there were many divisions, resulting in over 200 denominations.

Doctrinal issues, once going off the rails, have a very difficult time coming back to any degree of purity on their own

So you didn’t answer my question I asked earlier. Would you care to do so? I’d be interested in your thoughts.

I’m assuming that you are one of those folks that believe the SL LDS Church may have at one time been ‘true’ in its earlier ‘make up’ but then fell into apostasy? And now it’s not true?

In other words, my list provided earlier is more or less a non starter at this point because everything (from your perspective) went to pot (your list)?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

My question was embedded in this earlier post:

The problem is there’s a lot more than that list.

1) Believe Jews sailed to the Americas in 600BC
2) Pay tithing to the LDS corporation so it can be used to build shopping malls that sell alcohol
3) Don’t practice oral sex during the 70s when the church taught it was a sin
4) Miss out on temple blessings before 1978 if you are black
5) Don’t get baptized if you are the child of a gay parent between the years 2015 and 2018

On and on and on. If the church ever was restored, it is a j need of another restoration. In my opinion.

Another restoration would only result in the list of core beliefs that I listed. There wouldn’t be any difference.

So the question is whether or not a list such as yours should supersede and/or cancel out the core beliefs. The problem, as I see it, is that when individuals become consumed with those things that are peripheral to the core teachings and practices of the church they then walk out the door.

And that’s unfortunate, in my opinion.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

This poster is not interested in having a conversation. He is interested in promoting a nefarious organization at all costs. Sunk cost has taken a toll.

This isn’t productive to any sort of civil conversation. Please add something to the conversation…or back off.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
MG

Avec plaisir

[Marcus]

Hmmmm - I've noted several occasions when you have done this to my comments.

One, recently, you have (If I recall correctly) admitted to and pseudo-apologised.

Others, some time ago, you have ignored.

And, no, I'm not going to go through pages & pages of topics to find them, so I guess if you simply deny it I'll have to simply say OK. However, although I may not remember enough to find the previous occasions, I certainly remember the feeling it caused at the time.

ETA: In one case my entire comment was a few paras. You quoted it completely except for one or two sentences, thereby changing the meaning.

Yep. I’ve reported his sleight of hand in the past and instead of dealing with this specific problem being perpetrated by this particular poster, the moderator chastised me for reporting it. I took a break from the board on the back of that experience. I guess misrepresenting others when quoting them is acceptable now <shrug>

Only by him. So sorry you also had that experience with that poster--it's surprising given how many times recently he has continued to leave off ellipses and effectively misquote.

But anyway, welcome back!!

[Marcus]

Contextually if you go back and read what I’ve said…again…you will see that there is..contradiction and/or obfuscation in what I’ve said.

Agreed.

Completely.

[canpakes]

The problem is there’s a lot more than that list.

1) Believe Jews sailed to the Americas in 600BC
2) Pay tithing to the LDS corporation so it can be used to build shopping malls that sell alcohol
3) Don’t practice oral sex during the 70s when the church taught it was a sin
4) Miss out on temple blessings before 1978 if you are black
5) Don’t get baptized if you are the child of a gay parent between the years 2015 and 2018

On and on and on. If the church ever was restored, it is a j need of another restoration. In my opinion.

Another restoration would only result in the list of core beliefs that I listed. There wouldn’t be any difference.

So the question is whether or not a list such as yours should supersede and/or cancel out the core beliefs. The problem, as I see it, is that when individuals become consumed with those things that are peripheral to the core teachings and practices of the church they then walk out the door.

And that’s unfortunate, in my opinion.

Regards,
MG

1. I see one issue being that drumdude’s list calls into question #6 on your own list. That’s a significant issue for the LDS Chirch specifically.

2. Why would there need to be another restoration? And why was one supposedly required for Mormonism, aside from instituting some additional rituals?

[MG 2.0]

Agreed.

Completely.

Context.

Page 5 of thread. Post #3 and post #5

You are blowing smoke. Gonna start calling you ‘Negative Nanny’.

You do have something better to do, right?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

So sorry you also had that experience with that poster…

I can almost hear the violins…

Regards,
MG