If plates then God

[Marcus]

Trying to use an LDS thinking cap I can still see some of the same consideration. I see no reason to think that Satan plan would actually work. It would have been a deception to garner power and limit others. Of course thinking that would imply that all of those preexisting children were not all solid angels but would have been like the humans we know, a troublesome lot.

And yet that “Satan plan” is the the one that is being promoted by individuals on this thread, if I’m not mistaken.

You are completely mistaken and you know it.

If the plates were accessible for all to see and understand as being evidence of God.

also not a factual summing up of other's opinions, but yes, you seem to think so.

If children were somehow free from any harm or abuse through absolute force from the ‘good guys’. In other words, a god of this world that required no faith, made it known that he was god, and gave evidences galore of that fact.

you are inappropriately conflating two separate discussions. It is misleading and disingenuous.

...And until you folks can come up with a better plan that is not a clone of Satan’s plan I would suggest you not continue to rip on a God who may know a whole lot more than you do about what makes the plan of salvation tick and has failsafes in place....

Lol. Your threats are immature nonsense.

No decent human being condones evil.

One would hope. But this all started because you suggested calling a child abuser to an LDS church position of authority would allow him to be "caught" (??????) and thereby have an opportunity to repent and take advantage of god's forgiveness. Your concern for the eternal wellbeing of abusers was touching. /s

The arrogance that needs to be maintained to play armchair god is almost unimaginable.

and yet, you continue to do it! It's bizarre.

If I recall, Jesus had to put up with shenanigans from lawyers and hypocrites back in the day.

[I Have Questions]

If I recall, Jesus had to put up with shenanigans from lawyers and hypocrites back in the day.

Regards,
MG

You’re equating yourself with Jesus? And you accuse others of arrogance?

[Jersey Girl]

tagriffy
Nevertheless, it still seems there is a lot more he could do.

And given the teaching that God loves us MORE than we can ever even grasp, HE WOULD DO A LOT MORE. Therein is the rub. He doesn't violate free agency to save us from NEEDLESS suffering. An ever loving God would do more that is ever loving than is being done, hence the very real and strong doubts that arise if God even exists. WE would stop suffering, but God doesn't. That just does not make any kind of sense.

So if you are going to speak in terms of God, what God should/shouldn't do, what God does/doesn't do, I think you have it a little backwards. The answer to all your complaints is love. God doesn't lack love. Humans do. God has lovingly supplied us with all the resources we need to prevent suffering. We simply refuse to lovingly share them.

It's like you want God to come down here and show us what love is. Oh wait...

But don't go by me. I don't know anything about anything.

In any case, consider yourself lovingly corrected, lectured to, or told off, Sofee.

[Philo Sofee]

And given the teaching that God loves us MORE than we can ever even grasp, HE WOULD DO A LOT MORE. Therein is the rub. He doesn't violate free agency to save us from NEEDLESS suffering. An ever loving God would do more that is ever loving than is being done, hence the very real and strong doubts that arise if God even exists. WE would stop suffering, but God doesn't. That just does not make any kind of sense.

So if you are going to speak in terms of God, what God should/shouldn't do, what God does/doesn't do, I think you have it a little backwards. The answer to all your complaints is love. God doesn't lack love. Humans do. God has lovingly supplied us with all the resources we need to prevent suffering. We simply refuse to lovingly share them.

It's like you want God to come down here and show us what love is. Oh wait...

But don't go by me. I don't know anything about anything.

In any case, consider yourself lovingly corrected, lectured to, or told off, Sofee.

Agreed, to an extent, but that still leaves out God doing more when he could, thus leading to needless suffering that can be prevented. It makes God look like a sadist in so many ways. It wouldn't do anything to threaten anyone's free agency if God were to step in, like Mormonism claims he does for ridiculous reasons such as a stone in a hat, or losing car keys. There has to be more important reasons than helping someone find a mere dollar bill they lost, for God to intervene, yet in the most heinous cases, God remains aloof. That appears to me to be problematic is what I am saying.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

And given the teaching that God loves us MORE than we can ever even grasp, HE WOULD DO A LOT MORE. Therein is the rub. He doesn't violate free agency to save us from NEEDLESS suffering. An ever loving God would do more that is ever loving than is being done, hence the very real and strong doubts that arise if God even exists. WE would stop suffering, but God doesn't. That just does not make any kind of sense.

So if you are going to speak in terms of God, what God should/shouldn't do, what God does/doesn't do, I think you have it a little backwards. The answer to all your complaints is love. God doesn't lack love. Humans do. God has lovingly supplied us with all the resources we need to prevent suffering. We simply refuse to lovingly share them.

It's like you want God to come down here and show us what love is. Oh wait...

But don't go by me. I don't know anything about anything.

In any case, consider yourself lovingly corrected, lectured to, or told off, Sofee.

That’s victim blaming.

[Philo Sofee]

MG2.0
And yet that “Satan plan” is the the one that is being promoted by individuals on this thread, if I’m not mistaken.

You are ridiculously mistaken and you know it. NO ONE is advocating taking away free agency MG. Good lord you need to improve your understanding skills in what is being said. God intervening to help out a potential victim is NOT taking away free agency, you dope.
God intervenes in so many other ridiculously worthless ways, why not intervene in very helpful and useful ones? THAT is the issue, and it makes the Mormon God look ridiculous that he continues allowing people needless suffering. Emphasis on NEEDLESS. Are you deliberately being obtuse in order to defend a god who doesn't do enough? Why on earth would you do that? Are you actually scared of that kind of god or something?

[msnobody]

So if you are going to speak in terms of God, what God should/shouldn't do, what God does/doesn't do, I think you have it a little backwards. The answer to all your complaints is love. God doesn't lack love. Humans do. God has lovingly supplied us with all the resources we need to prevent suffering. We simply refuse to lovingly share them.

It's like you want God to come down here and show us what love is. Oh wait...

But don't go by me. I don't know anything about anything.

In any case, consider yourself lovingly corrected, lectured to, or told off, Sofee.

Agreed, to an extent, but that still leaves out God doing more when he could, thus leading to needless suffering that can be prevented. It makes God look like a sadist in so many ways. It wouldn't do anything to threaten anyone's free agency if God were to step in, like Mormonism claims he does for ridiculous reasons such as a stone in a hat, or losing car keys. There has to be more important reasons than helping someone find a mere dollar bill they lost, for God to intervene, yet in the most heinous cases, God remains aloof. That appears to me to be problematic is what I am saying.

He did step in 2000-ish years ago as Jesus Christ. He steps in as Holy Spirit to convict our hearts. He stays stepped in by indwelling believers with his Spirit. Evil has been, is being, and soon will be dealt with once for all.

We are guaranteed suffering in this earth life. We don’t have to go through it alone. I suppose the question is, how long do we experience suffering; for eternity or for earth life.


But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Titus 3:4-7

May each and every one of us yield to the promptings of the Holy Spirit, and endure momentary suffering.

[MG 2.0]

MG2.0
And yet that “Satan plan” is the the one that is being promoted by individuals on this thread, if I’m not mistaken.

You are ridiculously mistaken and you know it. NO ONE is advocating taking away free agency MG. Good lord you need to improve your understanding skills in what is being said. God intervening to help out a potential victim is NOT taking away free agency, you dope.
God intervenes in so many other ridiculously worthless ways, why not intervene in very helpful and useful ones? THAT is the issue, and it makes the Mormon God look ridiculous that he continues allowing people needless suffering. Emphasis on NEEDLESS. Are you deliberately being obtuse in order to defend a god who doesn't do enough? Why on earth would you do that? Are you actually scared of that kind of god or something?

Agency is taken away if God was to step in every time there are abuses, harms, and mayhems committing by mankind. If God makes Himself directly known once by curtailing one thing, and then another, and then another…where is the line to be drawn?

Faith as required in living with a veil between us and direct knowledge of God would be dismantled. Free agency to choose with alternatives that lead one direction or another would be compromised.

Everyone around the whole planet would know that big father is watching their every move ready to zap them if they misbehave.

I don’t think I’m far off at all in suggesting that the type of world some here would advocate looks a lot like Satan’s version for humanity. Full disclosure and force to not commit any sin or cross the red line.

Where would your red line be as to when God steps in and doesn’t? Every time a child rape is going to occur? Every time a man decides to beat his wife?

Jesus and the Father’s plan of free will and choice with its consequences is the only viable plan.

You don’t need to do the whole “dope” thing in order to supposedly strengthen your point.

Time for conference.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

MG2.0
And yet that “Satan plan” is the the one that is being promoted by individuals on this thread, if I’m not mistaken.

You are ridiculously mistaken and you know it. NO ONE is advocating taking away free agency MG. Good lord you need to improve your understanding skills in what is being said. God intervening to help out a potential victim is NOT taking away free agency, you dope.
God intervenes in so many other ridiculously worthless ways, why not intervene in very helpful and useful ones? THAT is the issue, and it makes the Mormon God look ridiculous that he continues allowing people needless suffering. Emphasis on NEEDLESS. Are you deliberately being obtuse in order to defend a god who doesn't do enough? Why on earth would you do that? Are you actually scared of that kind of god or something?

That is the really tone deaf part of the LDS approach, they trumpet 'god's intervention' due to the ' righteousness' of LDS members at every coincidence they can, without considering the implications.

The most horrifying example of this for me, was when the LDS church news trumpeted that LDS missionaries were not harmed when a terrorist bomb went off in France, injuring and killing many. The missionaries had coincidentally walked out just before the detonation, but the LDS headline was that the missionaries' 'righteousness' led to the Mormon god protecting them from death.

The same day, I saw a small notice that an LDS missionary in South America had died, due to the inhumane conditions the LDS leadership forces missionaries to endure in poverty stricken places. (not the mission presidents, though.)

It was devastating to consider that the mother of that missionary, while waiting for her son's body to be returned, might have read that obnoxious article pronouncing that 'righteous' missionaries were spared death by god's intervention. Was her son not righteous? What a devastating message to have to read. I will never forget how sick this made me feel, and how damaging the LDS approach can be.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Agreed, to an extent, but that still leaves out God doing more when he could, thus leading to needless suffering that can be prevented. It makes God look like a sadist in so many ways. It wouldn't do anything to threaten anyone's free agency if God were to step in, like Mormonism claims he does for ridiculous reasons such as a stone in a hat, or losing car keys. There has to be more important reasons than helping someone find a mere dollar bill they lost, for God to intervene, yet in the most heinous cases, God remains aloof. That appears to me to be problematic is what I am saying.

He did step in 2000-ish years ago as Jesus Christ. He steps in as Holy Spirit to convict our hearts. He stays stepped in by indwelling believers with his Spirit. Evil has been, is being, and soon will be dealt with once for all.

We are guaranteed suffering in this earth life. We don’t have to go through it alone. I suppose the question is, how long do we experience suffering; for eternity or for earth life.


But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Titus 3:4-7

May each and every one of us yield to the promptings of the Holy Spirit, and endure momentary suffering.

That's a bunch of nonsense gibberish that helps you deal with the harsh realities of an absurd universe that produces bone cancer and eyeball parasites - and is silent when a child is raped in a basement in a crappy town, say, in Soweto.

Sure, we humans are trying to do better, but what about the billions of humans who suffered horrific deaths, torture, abuse, and starvation because the gods stood passively by? And don't bother to type out some nonsense that the Holy Spirit was with the woman who had her fingers chopped off in Hanoi by a man who proceeded to rape and murder her family in front of her eyes circa 761 AD. This world is an unbelievably cruel place, and if an intelligence created it, he or she ain't tellin' us why while it stands by, despite what you think some dumb rubes said about the whole affair back in 100 AD.

- Doc