If plates then God

[Rivendale]

Free will has nothing to do with the number of fawns that I routinely see dead and have to remove from Mormon cemeteries where they get trapped by the chain link fences separating them from their mothers.

Free will in the case of animals such as deer, mice, pigs, fish, etc., present an interesting study in instinct vs. conscious thought and awareness don’t they?

It is good of you to remove them.

Regards,
MG

They suffered for no reason.

[MG 2.0]

Free will in the case of animals such as deer, mice, pigs, fish, etc., present an interesting study in instinct vs. conscious thought and awareness don’t they?

It is good of you to remove them.

Regards,
MG

They suffered for no reason.

They suffered because the chain link fence separated them from their mothers.

That was the reason.

I guess that you could run a comparison between whoever put up the fence and God. Is that what you’re doing?

If so, these abstract comparisons are kind of fun aren’t they?

Regards,
MG

[Philo Sofee]

This is confusing. First you claim God would have failsafes to prevent someone blowing it…

You got off on the wrong foot to begin with in misphrasing and/or misrepresenting what I said.

I said:

God would have instituted failsafes in the possibility that individuals are going to blow it…

You said:

God would have failsafes to prevent someone blowing it…

Look carefully. See the difference?

Everything else you said is set up on a faulty foundation.

But I’m sure that wasn’t intentional.

I needed to jump in on this one. I’ve been at this thread long enough and I believe I’ve made some strong points along the way. Various options and ways of approaching the topics at hand have been presented. It is now up to the reader to determine what makes most sense to them. At this point I will only jump in if I see something that might need adjustment or correction if I’m being misrepresented or having my words twisted as they sometimes are whether purposefully or unintentionally.

Regards,
MG

You invoking the infinite atonement entires refutes all of your Mormonism dontchta know.... I may well make yet another video on that interesting subject.
To all your strong points, you ignore that others made far stronger and more determined points, yet you sailed right on by them imagining they weren't real o r something, who knows what mental gymnastics you went through to come to such a conclusion as you do here.

[Rivendale]

They suffered for no reason.

They suffered because the chain link fence separated them from their mothers.

That was the reason.

I guess that you could run a comparison between whoever put up the fence and God. Is that what you’re doing?

If so, these abstract comparisons are kind of fun aren’t they?

Regards,
MG

It is the same argument everyone has been saying in this thread. I just took it to animals , which by the way exist on a horrific scale. With 99% of every living thing on this planet going extinct and dying in horrific ways it seems as though suffering is the modus operandi of this world. But since child deaths and torture dosen't seem to impart any real meaningful impact on you I thought taking the fallen man out of the equation might give you some insight. I see fawns dead in natural crevices where they can't get to their mothers....but....oh welll.....

[MG 2.0]

You got off on the wrong foot to begin with in misphrasing and/or misrepresenting what I said.

I said:


You said:


Look carefully. See the difference?

Everything else you said is set up on a faulty foundation.

But I’m sure that wasn’t intentional.

I needed to jump in on this one. I’ve been at this thread long enough and I believe I’ve made some strong points along the way. Various options and ways of approaching the topics at hand have been presented. It is now up to the reader to determine what makes most sense to them. At this point I will only jump in if I see something that might need adjustment or correction if I’m being misrepresented or having my words twisted as they sometimes are whether purposefully or unintentionally.

Regards,
MG

You invoking the infinite atonement entires refutes all of your Mormonism dontchta know.... I may well make yet another video on that interesting subject.
To all your strong points, you ignore that others made far stronger and more determined points, yet you sailed right on by them imagining they weren't real o r something, who knows what mental gymnastics you went through to come to such a conclusion as you do here.

A lot of points out there that are real. That doesn’t mean that they’re true.

Well, I know what mental gymnastics I’ve gone through to reach certain conditional conclusions. All based on the choice/belief in a loving creator God. Everything flows from there.

If there is no God then the points being made really don’t matter anyway. As Doc has said, all is simply absurd. There is no point. Except for what we manufacture in our brains. I think there is something more than that.

The point I’m making is that if there is a loving creator God then we can trust Him. Jesus loved…loves the little children. He will take good care to see that all is well with them.

I don’t think an infinite atonement refutes Mormonism as you seem to be saying. Why do you say that? You do believe that we have free will within the constraints of the conditions we find ourselves in because of the natural world and the actions of men, right? A certain degree of accountability for our actions while living on this planet?

Or are you a simple Jesus guy. As in the Doobies, “Jesus is Just Alright With Me”. Great song by the way.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

But since child deaths and torture dosen't seem to impart any real meaningful impact on you…

Our choices as to which charitable organizations to contribute to are based on what they do to alleviate child suffering.

We can each do what we can to lessen the impact of the effects of the natural world in which free will and nature run supreme.

It’s an uphill battle. I appreciate the fact that many churches, including my own, along with many NGO’s are having an impact for good in alleviating child hunger and disease. If you haven’t already, join the fight.

I would think that God smiles on all the acts of kindness bestowed upon his little ones and those that are in harm’s way.

It really means something when we choose to alleviate REAL suffering. I think if God had His way, while at the same time granting us free will with a veil drawn between earth and heaven, he would have a world where there was absolutely no misery and pain.

But I don’t think that’s possible in this telestial world. The evidence has shown this to be true for thousands of years. I think it is possible in a celestial world though where everyone has chosen the path of godlike attributes and behavior.

And can live God’s law and be like he is. Compatible to that society. Having proved the potentiality to do so.

But man, we really have to work at it while we’re in the flesh. The natural man is an enemy to God and we have to continually fight our carnal natures. We choose, against all obstacles, to create and/or be worthy of a world in which peace and harmony reign supreme.

But we choose it. We aren’t forced or coerced into it.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Baby cancer.

[drumdude]

Baby cancer.

It’s faith promoting and reminds us that there is a loving god that provides an afterlife blah blah blah

[Res Ipsa]

Yes, you absolutely have a problem holding your God responsible for his creation. You don't hold him responsible at all for the fact that, according to what you choose to believe, he sent many of his spirit children down to earth at a specific place and at a specific time knowing, with 100% certainty, that they would be beaten, raped, tortured and murdered. From the place of an omniscient God, it's no different than pushing a child in front of a speeding car. Yet you rationalize away this horrible act of cruelty with a wave of your hand. (Gee, compared to eternity, the suffering is almost insignificant.)

What, the God-inspired scriptures don't hold God accountable for his own actions? Color me shocked.

Repeatedly invoking the fallacy of the secluded middle is no answer. The abuser is responsible for abusing the child. God is responsible for giving the abuser access to the child, knowing with certainty that the child will be abused. It's not just one or the other -- it's both.

I don’t have a problem holding God responsible for a plan in which we come to earth and make real choices. Choices that matter. We are accountable for those choices. Choices do have consequences. God will reward the wicked and the righteous according to their deeds while in the mortal body. Jesus (God) loves children. He has prepared a way that all will be well for them. They will be taken under His care. They will be compensated.

I am waiting for you to come up with an alternative plan that values complete free will to choose and does not include the horrors of this world.

You’ve had a whole lotta’ pages to do so.

This whole thing is not rocket science. The plan of salvation is rather simple in some respects. But because of the easiness of the way many stumble and often fall.

You have trust issues with God. That much is clear.

Regards,
MG

LOL. Would you trust someone who entrusts young, innocent children to a child abuser that he knows will beat, rape, and torture them?

Never mind. You do. You've told us that dozens of times.

I trust no God that insists he's perfectly good yet subjects innocent children to beatings, rape, torture, and death. But, seriously, it's you, Joseph Smith, and his successors that I don't trust. Trust isn't an issue when it comes to beings people imagine.

[Rivendale]

But since child deaths and torture dosen't seem to impart any real meaningful impact on you…

Our choices as to which charitable organizations to contribute to are based on what they do to alleviate child suffering.

We can each do what we can to lessen the impact of the effects of the natural world in which free will and nature run supreme.

It’s an uphill battle. I appreciate the fact that many churches, including my own, along with many NGO’s are having an impact for good in alleviating child hunger and disease. If you haven’t already, join the fight.

I would think that God smiles on all the acts of kindness bestowed upon his little ones and those that are in harm’s way.

It really means something when we choose to alleviate REAL suffering. I think if God had His way, while at the same time granting us free will with a veil drawn between earth and heaven, he would have a world where there was absolutely no misery and pain.

But I don’t think that’s possible in this telestial world. The evidence has shown this to be true for thousands of years. I think it is possible in a celestial world though where everyone has chosen the path of godlike attributes and behavior.

And can live God’s law and be like he is. Compatible to that society. Having proved the potentiality to do so.

But man, we really have to work at it while we’re in the flesh. The natural man is an enemy to God and we have to continually fight our carnal natures. We choose, against all obstacles, to create and/or be worthy of a world in which peace and harmony reign supreme.

But we choose it. We aren’t forced or coerced into it.

Regards,
MG

That explanation is indistinguishable from just regular people living their lives and buying a cup of coffee while lamenting it might send them to a lower kingdom. Creating this defense against what could be what should be is odd. Odd in a way that most people just want to avoid heartache and hope they leave a better world than when they they found it. You on the other hand compound this by claiming Mormon god is in charge.