Israel

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Chap
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Re: Israel

Post by Chap »

Vēritās wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:15 pm

There was no rational reason for Britain to steal that land and give it to the Jews; only a religious one.
It was a bit more complicated than that. This Wikipedia article recounts the complex history of the Palestine Mandate, and the eventual creation of two states, one Jewish and one Arab, as a result:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_for_Palestine

This is just the introduction ... I suggest you read the whole article.
The Mandate for Palestine was a League of Nations mandate for British administration of the territories of Palestine and Transjordan, both of which had been conceded by the Ottoman Empire following the end of World War I in 1918. The mandate was assigned to Britain by the San Remo conference in April 1920, after France's concession in the 1918 Clemenceau–Lloyd George Agreement of the previously-agreed "international administration" of Palestine under the Sykes–Picot Agreement. Transjordan was added to the mandate after the Arab Kingdom in Damascus was toppled by the French in the Franco-Syrian War. Civil administration began in Palestine and Transjordan in July 1920 and April 1921, respectively, and the mandate was in force from 29 September 1923 to 15 May 1948 and to 25 May 1946 respectively.
The mandate document was based on Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations of 28 June 1919 and the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers' San Remo Resolution of 25 April 1920. The objective of the mandates over former territories of Ottoman Empire was to provide "administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone". The border between Palestine and Transjordan was agreed in the final mandate document, and the approximate northern border with the French Mandate for Syria and the Lebanon was agreed in the Paulet–Newcombe Agreement of 23 December 1920.
In Palestine, the Mandate required Britain to put into effect the Balfour Declaration's "national home for the Jewish people" alongside the Palestinian Arabs, who composed the vast majority of the local population; this requirement and others, however, would not apply to the separate Arab emirate to be established in Transjordan. The British controlled Palestine for almost three decades, overseeing a succession of protests, riots and revolts between the Jewish and Palestinian Arab communities. During the Mandate, the area saw the rise of two nationalist movements: the Jews and the Palestinian Arabs. Intercommunal conflict in Mandatory Palestine ultimately produced the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and the 1944–1948 Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine. The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was passed on 29 November 1947; this envisaged the creation of separate Jewish and Arab states operating under economic union, and with Jerusalem transferred to UN trusteeship. Two weeks later, Colonial Secretary Arthur Creech Jones announced that the British Mandate would end on 15 May 1948. On the last day of the Mandate, the Jewish community there issued the Israeli Declaration of Independence. After the failure of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine, the 1947–1949 Palestine war ended with Mandatory Palestine divided among Israel, the Jordanian annexation of the West Bank and the Egyptian All-Palestine Protectorate in the Gaza Strip.
Transjordan was added to the mandate following the Cairo Conference of March 1921, at which it was agreed that Abdullah bin Hussein would administer the territory under the auspices of the Palestine Mandate. Since the end of the war it had been administered from Damascus by a joint Arab-British military administration headed by Abdullah's younger brother Faisal, and then became a no man's land after the French defeated Faisal's army in July 1920 and the British initially chose to avoid a definite connection with Palestine. The addition of Transjordan was given legal form on 21 March 1921, when the British incorporated Article 25 into the Palestine Mandate. Article 25 was implemented via the 16 September 1922 Transjordan memorandum, which established a separate "Administration of Trans-Jordan" for the application of the Mandate under the general supervision of Great Britain. In April 1923, five months before the mandate came into force, Britain announced its intention to recognise an "independent Government" in Transjordan; this autonomy increased further under a 20 February 1928 treaty, and the state became fully independent with the Treaty of London of 22 March 1946.
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ajax18
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Re: Israel

Post by ajax18 »

Reports: Hamas Kills Palestinian Civilians Trying to Flee; Won’t Let Americans Leave

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Hamas terrorists (Lynsey Addario / Getty)Lynsey Addario / Getty

Reports are emerging that the Hamas terrorist group is preventing civilians from evacuating northern Gaza, killing innocent Palestinians who try to leave, and preventing American citizens from using the Rafah border crossing to escape to Egypt.

Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesman Jonathan Conricus has been warning for days that Hamas is preventing civilians from leaving Gaza ahead of an anticipated ground war. He cited both Israeli and international sources in an interview on CNN Sunday:

The Times of Israel noted that Conricus expanded on that point during a question-and-answer session on Twitter/X Sunday, accusing Hamas of attacking a column of Palestinian civilians trying to evacuate, killing 70:

IDF spokesperson Jonathan Conricus says a strike on a convoy of Gazans fleeing to the southern part of the Strip Friday appears to have been a false flag operation carried out by Hamas.…

At least 70 people, most of them children, were killed in the strike, which occurred on a route that Israel said should be used for fleeing Gazans. Another 200 were injured.

Conricus says he expects the army will release proof of its claim in the coming hours or days.

On Sunday morning, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan told CNN’s Jake Tapper on State of the Union that while Egypt and Israel were trying to help the U.S. evacuate American citizens from Gaza, Hamas was preventing them from leaving:

The Egyptians have, in fact, agreed to allow Americans to depart, to get safe passage through the Rafah Crossing. The Israelis agreed to ensure that the area around there would be safe, at least as far as they were able to do so.

The question when we tried to move a group yesterday was actually Hamas taking steps to try and stop that from happening. But we are continuing to work this around the clock. And we are doing all that we can to make sure that American citizens who are in Gaza can get through that border crossing.

The Fourth Geneva Convention requires that foreign civilians who wish to leave a conflict area must be allowed to do so, or must be given the opportunity to present their case for doing so to an appropriate tribunal. Hamas is thus violating international law.

https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2 ... ans-leave/
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Re: Israel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

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Vēritās
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Re: Israel

Post by Vēritās »

Chap wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:44 am
It was a bit more complicated than that.
Everything is always more complicated than it seems, but at the end of the day it had the same effect as far as the Palestinians are concerned. Palestine had been controlled by the Turkish Empire for more than 4 centuries. It was conquered by the English/French during WWI, and the French ceded Palestine to Britain who made its intentions perfectly clear with the Balfour Declaration of 1917; that was basically a gift to the Zionist movement that began in the late 19th century. At the time there were fewer than a million people living in that region, almost all of whom were non-Jews. That quickly changed during the Mandate period as Jews began flooding the region in droves. The whole thing was a cluster fuq from start to finish, as the BD and the Mandate garnered much criticism from both sides as to their interpretation and scope. But one thing is clear. The entire idea of giving the Jews a homeland was grounded in religious ideology, and the English adopted it from Zionist Basel Program of 1897.
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Re: Israel

Post by Vēritās »

This is Wadea Al-Fayoume. He's dead now.

fdb dbf.jpg
He and his mother were attacked by their landlord who was watching too much news coverage of the conflict in Israel.
“Detectives were able to determine that both victims in this brutal attack were targeted by the suspect due to them being Muslim and the ongoing Middle Eastern conflict involving Hamas and the Israelis,” the Plainfield Township homicide department said in a statement.

Shahin was stabbed over a dozen times but is expected to survive, according to officials.

Her son, Wadea, was remembered for his passion for life by Ahmed Rehab, the executive director of the Chicago office for the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

“He loved everything, he loved everybody, loved his toys, anything with a ball ― basketball, soccer. He loved to color; he loved to swing around. He loved his parents. He loved his family and his friends. He loved life,” Rehab said.

“He has no clue about these larger issues happening in the world. But he was made to pay for it,” Rehab added.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Israel

Post by Res Ipsa »

Vēritās wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:18 pm
Chap wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:44 am
It was a bit more complicated than that.
Everything is always more complicated than it seems, but at the end of the day it had the same effect as far as the Palestinians are concerned. Palestine had been controlled by the Turkish Empire for more than 4 centuries. It was conquered by the English/French during WWI, and the French ceded Palestine to Britain who made its intentions perfectly clear with the Balfour Declaration of 1917; that was basically a gift to the Zionist movement that began in the late 19th century. At the time there were fewer than a million people living in that region, almost all of whom were non-Jews. That quickly changed during the Mandate period as Jews began flooding the region in droves. The whole thing was a cluster fuq from start to finish, as the BD and the Mandate garnered much criticism from both sides as to their interpretation and scope. But one thing is clear. The entire idea of giving the Jews a homeland was grounded in religious ideology, and the English adopted it from Zionist Basel Program of 1897.

It’s easy to claim that the only cause was religious ideology if you simply ignore the political and pragmatic reasons for creating a Jewish nation state.
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Re: Israel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:51 pm
Vēritās wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:18 pm
Everything is always more complicated than it seems, but at the end of the day it had the same effect as far as the Palestinians are concerned. Palestine had been controlled by the Turkish Empire for more than 4 centuries. It was conquered by the English/French during WWI, and the French ceded Palestine to Britain who made its intentions perfectly clear with the Balfour Declaration of 1917; that was basically a gift to the Zionist movement that began in the late 19th century. At the time there were fewer than a million people living in that region, almost all of whom were non-Jews. That quickly changed during the Mandate period as Jews began flooding the region in droves. The whole thing was a cluster fuq from start to finish, as the BD and the Mandate garnered much criticism from both sides as to their interpretation and scope. But one thing is clear. The entire idea of giving the Jews a homeland was grounded in religious ideology, and the English adopted it from Zionist Basel Program of 1897.
It’s easy to claim that the only cause was religious ideology it you simply ignore the political and pragmatic reasons for creating a Jewish nation state.
Balfour himself was quoted that “something ought to be done for the Jews because they suffered greatly at the hands of the Christian world for 1900 years” :

https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration

And he was friends with influential Jewish zionists, including a Rothschild - who was Jewish - who rejected other sites for Jewish homelands. So, yeah, seems kind of religious to me. It’s not like the Jews were getting a homeland because they were atheists.

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Re: Israel

Post by Vēritās »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:51 pm
Vēritās wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:18 pm
Everything is always more complicated than it seems, but at the end of the day it had the same effect as far as the Palestinians are concerned. Palestine had been controlled by the Turkish Empire for more than 4 centuries. It was conquered by the English/French during WWI, and the French ceded Palestine to Britain who made its intentions perfectly clear with the Balfour Declaration of 1917; that was basically a gift to the Zionist movement that began in the late 19th century. At the time there were fewer than a million people living in that region, almost all of whom were non-Jews. That quickly changed during the Mandate period as Jews began flooding the region in droves. The whole thing was a cluster fuq from start to finish, as the BD and the Mandate garnered much criticism from both sides as to their interpretation and scope. But one thing is clear. The entire idea of giving the Jews a homeland was grounded in religious ideology, and the English adopted it from Zionist Basel Program of 1897.
It’s easy to claim that the only cause was religious ideology it you simply ignore the political and pragmatic reasons for creating a Jewish nation state.
Almost as easy as denying the religious origin and asserting politics as the reason. But I'm sure you're right. The Basel Program must have been created in a vacuum, and nothing at all to do with Jewish ideology. Balfour wasn't influenced by Zionism at all, despite the evidence. I'm sure the world would have found a way to give the Jews that entire swath of land if there were no Biblical mandate for it. I mean the fact that there is a Biblical mandate, well, I guess we can just chalk that up to crazy coincidence.

I don't see anything pragmatic about handing that region over to Jewish control. It was clearly not being well received given the Arab revolts during that Mandatory period. If world leaders during the Arab Revolt were driven by common sense as opposed to the fear of God, I think they would have quickly realized this was a mistake they needed to back away from. Three quarters of a century later the death toll in that regions keeps growing, we've made Israel one of only nine Nuclear powers in the world and we give them carte blanche for the exercise of apartheid. And it is taboo to even criticize because who wants to be called an antisemite?
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Vēritās
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Re: Israel

Post by Vēritās »

This is from John Stewart, from 9 years ago. It is so apt today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCKZYKsiGM
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal ...(there are) mentally challenged people with special needs like myself- Ajax18
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Re: Israel

Post by Vēritās »

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