If plates then God

[Morley]

Yes, the fact that chunks of lightly reworked KJV Isaiah are stuffed in there is a pretty clear indication that the book is not ancient.

In addition to his linguistic analysis, Skousen also provides a historical overview of the Book of Mormon's use of Isaiah. He argues that the Book of Mormon authors were likely familiar with the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament that was widely used in the ancient world. Skousen also suggests that the Book of Mormon authors may have been influenced by Jewish apocalyptic literature, which also made use of Isaiah's prophecies.

Reference: Bard A.I.

Regards,
MG

Bold is mine.


I think the Septuagint was translated in or around the Third Century BCE. According to the CoJCoLDS, Lehi and Co. arrived in the Americas around 600 BCE.

[Rivendale]

Yes, the fact that chunks of lightly reworked KJV Isaiah are stuffed in there is a pretty clear indication that the book is not ancient.

Regards,
MG

Bold is mine.


I think the Septuagint was translated in or around the Third Century BCE. According to the CoJCoLDS, Lehi and Co. arrived in the Americas around 600 BCE.

And Deutero Issiah adds to the problems. And why the errors? And what about Adam Clark's commentary plagerism. Also the literary capability at the time was mainly ritualistic and not narrative.

[Doctor Steuss]

I think the Septuagint was translated in or around the Third Century BCE. According to the CoJCoLDS, Lehi and Co. arrived in the Americas around 600 BCE.

Yuppers. Even the Jewish legend itself of its compiling/creation has it being done under the direction of Ptolemy II (using 6 people from each of the Twelve Tribes). I think scholars (at least some, anyway) push it into the 2nd century BCE.

Maybe there was a ghost committee for Lehi/Nephi of Hellenistic Jews from Alexandria.

Gods and angels, all the way down. Miracles galore!

[Doctor Steuss]

There are many witnesses during Joseph’s time that verify that he did not have the ability to write the Book of Mormon during the 1929 time period.

Obviously, the preponderance of those "witnesses" are secular non-believers who weren't taken in by the Joseph's prophetic grift, right? Riiight?

Incredibly, just a few years later, we have letters, sermon accounts, social commentary, business and government dealings, and journals that demonstrate a rather robust, creative, and substantial cognitive ability. Obviously, God just zapped his brain, making the Book of Mormon impossible for him, but everything else just a few short years later entirely possible.

Gods and angels all the way down. Miracles galore!

[Morley]

The question that should be asked beforehand is how would Joseph Smith have been able to write the Book of Mormon in 1829 (see link in recent post). Your question then becomes somewhat peripheral if not irrelevant.

The default would then be “by the gift and power of God” which can range the gamut of possibilities.

The default explanation should never be by the gift and power of God--even for those who are religious. That approach has been used by tyrants to quell questioning, suppress art and science, and to subjugate the masses--for millennia.

[MG 2.0]

The question that should be asked beforehand is how would Joseph Smith have been able to write the Book of Mormon in 1829 (see link in recent post). Your question then becomes somewhat peripheral if not irrelevant.

The default would then be “by the gift and power of God” which can range the gamut of possibilities.

The default explanation should never be by the gift and power of God--even for those who are religious. That approach has been used by tyrants to quell questioning, suppress art and science, and to subjugate the masses--for millennia.

I realize that. But in this instance what would you see as the plausible alternatives?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Yes, the fact that chunks of lightly reworked KJV Isaiah are stuffed in there is a pretty clear indication that the book is not ancient.

Regards,
MG

Bold is mine.


I think the Septuagint was translated in or around the Third Century BCE. According to the CoJCoLDS, Lehi and Co. arrived in the Americas around 600 BCE.

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible that was completed in the third century BCE 1. While it is possible that the authors of the Book of Mormon were aware of the Septuagint, there is no direct evidence to support this claim. However, there are some similarities between the language used in the Book of Mormon and the Septuagint.
Bard A.I.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor Steuss]

I realize that. But in this instance what would you see as the plausible alternatives?

Regards,
MG

The most plausible alternative is that it was produced the same way the other 1,000,000,000,000,000 books and documents from humanity have been produced. By humans through human means.

Although, if "by the gift and power of God" is the default, then that would necessitate that it is the default position for all books and documents. It shouldn't require someone claiming it was done through supernatural means -- they may just not have been aware of the divine using them as a conduit.

Every issue of Hustler was created by the gift and power of God, by default. Every 6th grader's diary... gift and power of God, by default. The menu at Denny's; once again, the gift and power of God by default. It's up to the non-believers to prove that the Haiku about poop I wrote in the 5th grade wasn't actually holy writ -- for others, it will be taken as a matter of faith.

[Marcus]

I think the Septuagint was translated in or around the Third Century BCE. According to the CoJCoLDS, Lehi and Co. arrived in the Americas around 600 BCE.

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible that was completed in the third century BCE 1. While it is possible that the authors of the Book of Mormon were aware of the Septuagint, there is no direct evidence to support this claim. However, there are some similarities between the language used in the Book of Mormon and the Septuagint.

Bard A.I.

Regards,
MG

Are you just posting A.I.-generated comments?

[MG 2.0]

There are many witnesses during Joseph’s time that verify that he did not have the ability to write the Book of Mormon during the 1929 time period.

Obviously, the preponderance of those "witnesses" are secular non-believers who weren't taken in by the Joseph's prophetic grift, right? Riiight?

Incredibly, just a few years later, we have letters, sermon accounts, social commentary, business and government dealings, and journals that demonstrate a rather robust, creative, and substantial cognitive ability. Obviously, God just zapped his brain, making the Book of Mormon impossible for him, but everything else just a few short years later entirely possible.

The essay I linked to by Brian Hales talks about both of these concerns that you have. The essay is rather long but worth the read.

Regards,
MG