Vogel video on magic parchments and Jupiter talisman

[dan vogel]

Mars dagger as well as Joseph Smith’s Jupiter talisman.

This is Shulem calling Dan Vogel, calling Dan Vogel, come in Vogel!

I see the Maltese crosses but what are those three little circles? Is that a half moon? I say again, what are those little circles?

here

Car Shulem calling car Philo, are u there?

I don't think these symbols are ever explained anywhere.

[Shulem]

I don't think these symbols are ever explained anywhere.

Dan,

I wonder why that is? We need answers and we need them NOW! Not next year or worse yet in the next life. We need to know NOW! You and I and the BYP are not spring chickens. Do you want to live and die without knowing the answer? Not me! Hell no. I'm buying a Stairway to Heaven and I'll get there if it kills me.

I wonder about those symbols in what appears to be a half moon and three stars in a row. Now, I have discussed this in another thread while interpreting the possibility with Don Bradley about other source materials available to the prophet which compares with what's on the parchment which you have so dutifully explained EXCEPT FOR THE HALF MOON AND THREE STARS!!! And Bradley seems to have run away like a chicken.

Anyway, Shulem is here, to the rescue!

Come in car Philo, where the hell are you?!

[Shulem]

each symbol, whether astrological or magical, etc. I am really impressed.

The sun, moon, and stars were an important feature in the revelations of Joseph Smith who incorporated biblical themes involving the heavens into his own stories and ideas. Right?

The Bible gives us a triple shot of Orion and Smith knew it:

Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:

So what of Orion? If it's in the Bible then there is a good chance of it being elsewhere to include magical parchments, talismans or whatever. I've posited that the three little circles may well represent Orion but it seems nobody on this board gives a damn. Screw it, why do I bother? I don't know. But I will try again and after that -- I'm done. F-it! Goodbye. I'm tired of yelling. ugh

Below are a few posts up in the Celestial forum in my thread entitled:

Kinderhook Plates and Don Bradley

(I highly recommend the whole thread)

What are the six stars (?) on the plate? The three to the right are in a tic-tac-toe formation and the three at left are somewhat offset? Stars? Oh come on!

Look:



What IF?



If the three circled stars in the above diagram are the same three stars on the plate then that means the other three stars make for a match. Betelgeuse would be the lowest star on the plate. Of course, this is depicted from a certain angle and is wild speculation. But hey, leave no stone unturned and ask questions!

I love to speculate. It’s fun! If you’re lying down on the ground looking up at Orion you can see the belt in any position depending on your orientation. Right?

Don,

You will notice on the upper section of one side of the plate has what I interpret is a full moon disc. It’s a full moon in the night sky. The plate to the right of it which is the reverse side has what I interpret as a half moon going through the phase cycle although you have identified it with the hieroglyphic NEB (boat looking character in the GAEL). Earlier, I mentioned the six little circles which I suggested may be stars -- perhaps even Orion’s Belt.



Ask yourself, what on earth (or in heaven) could that clean looking full circle possible be? Doesn’t it make sense that it’s the moon? Think about it. Imagery of the moon is timeless and as ancient as can be. It makes perfect sense that Fugate thought of that in order to add an authentic touch to an ancient work of art. Everyone loves and appreciate looking at the moon; especially a full moon. Right?

If it’s not the moon, then what is it? What did Fugate have in mind by drawing a full circle? He must have had something in mind. What is it?

IF the circle is a full moon AND the half circle on the reverse represents a moon in phase, then it stands to reason that the six little circles are stars in the night sky. AND those six stars could well represent the pattern of stars in the Orion constellation. Notice that the three stars in the belt are three in a row and the other three stars are offset just as they are in the actual constellation. It’s nearly an exact match! The arced character between the stars and below the half-moon could be a fictitious hieroglyph signifying the moon.




So what do you think of them apples?

And if nobody cares then I don't either. F-it. I'll pick up my toys and be gone.

[Shulem]

Nobody really seemed to care too much about this thread or what I had to say but I figured I'd drop another post to add a little more sugar and spice to the mix.

Yeah baby!



Notice how the sun sign is associated with the angel Michael and the moon sign with the angel Gabriel:

The Dicovery of Witchraft, Reginald Scot

These characters of the angels of the seven daies, with their names: of figures, seales and periapts.

Michael (symbols)
Gabriel (symbols)

Is it possible the sign for Jubanladace is associated with Orion's belt, three stars in a row?



Characters/symbols forJubanladace, a celestial messenger:

Reginald Scot, Jubanladace

Ebenezer Sibly, Jubanladace

...he beareth always a flaming Sword, and is girded about, having a helmet upon his head and appearing still before the party in the Air

A TRUE RELATION OF Dr. DEE’S Actions, with spirits. (Book Page 22, Internet digital page 116)

DEE: I pray you to declare unto us your name.

JUBANLADACE: My name is Jubanladace.

DEE: If I should not offend you, I would gladly know of what order you are, or how your state is in respect of Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, or Uriel.

JUBANLADACE: Unto men, according unto their deserts, and the first excellency of their Soul, God hath appointed a good Governour or Angel, from amongst the orders of those that are Blessed: For every Soul that is good, is not of one and the self same dignification; Therefore according to his excellency we are appointed as Ministers from that order, whereunto his Excellency accordeth: To the intent that he may be brought at last to supply those places which were Glorified by a former; And also to the intent, that the Prince of Darknesse might be counterpoised in Gods Justice. Amongst the which I am one which am the Keeper and Defender of this man present: which carry the Triumph and Ensign of Victories continually before him, as a reproach to my adversaries and his, and to confirm the dignity whereunto he is called by the presence of this Character.

[Boomer57]

Nobody really seemed to care too much about this thread or what I had to say but I figured I'd drop another post to add a little more sugar and spice to the mix.

Yeah baby!

The three dots are the stars on Orion's Belt. I have spoken...

[Shulem]

Nobody really seemed to care too much about this thread or what I had to say but I figured I'd drop another post to add a little more sugar and spice to the mix.

Yeah baby!

The three dots are the stars on Orion's Belt. I have spoken...

Indeed, they are!

And, the other three stars across from it as shown on my pics including the Kinderhook plate are part of the Orion Hunter constellation. I've compared both very carefully and they match up. The maker of the Kinderhook plates was careful to utilize astronomy in hopes that it would hook Smith whose Book of Abraham was much of the same in referencing astronomy.

I'm glad you care, Boomer. Nobody else around here gives a rat's ass. And I find that to be quite sorry.

Oh well.

[Boomer57]

The three dots are the stars on Orion's Belt. I have spoken...

Indeed, they are!

And, the other three stars across from it as shown on my pics including the Kinderhook plate are part of the Orion Hunter constellation. I've compared both very carefully and they match up. The maker of the Kinderhook plates was careful to utilize astronomy in hopes that it would hook Smith whose Book of Abraham was much of the same in referencing astronomy.

I'm glad you care, Boomer. Nobody else around here gives a rat's ass. And I find that to be quite sorry.

Oh well.

I guess I'm a rat! eeeek!

[Philo Sofee]

I care! I care! The three could also be the three hearth stones of the Indian fireplace and their symbolic representation, following Coomaraswami and his view. I mean Orion is worldwide in some respects, so there is that.

[Shulem]

I care! I care! The three could also be the three hearth stones of the Indian fireplace and their symbolic representation, following Coomaraswami and his view. I mean Orion is worldwide in some respects, so there is that.

Yep, there is that too.

[Shulem]

I care! I care! The three could also be the three hearth stones of the Indian fireplace and their symbolic representation, following Coomaraswami and his view. I mean Orion is worldwide in some respects, so there is that.

But stop and think about it, Philo. THINK

That is what you're supposed to do best. Right

Lest the ball hit you in the face...

Could it be the reason the makers of the Kinderhook plates designed primitive images of the sun, moon, stars (read onward in this thread) into the upper portion of the plates was to see if Joseph Smith could decipher what it meant? If Smith had correctly identified the sun, moon, and Orion's Belt facing the three stars including Betelgeuse, then that would have proven that Smith was clairvoyant. But if he failed to identify them then the makers of the plates could have accused him and exposed his false translation. Their plan was to entrap him and prove he couldn't really translate ancient languages.

So, what do you think of that, Vogel? Bradley? Anyone?