The Trump Criminal Case MEGATHREAD.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

edit: by the way, the Dow Jones bumped up 500 points on Trump’s conviction. Lol.

[Gadianton]

I'll continue to do the best I can.

You mentioned the jurors are essentially brainwashed into voting against Trump. I think the basic concern is valid.

However, you ought to also consider that we are different people in different contexts. When you're posting on Stormfront, you aren't exactly the same Ajax who posts where, who isn't exactly the same Ajax in priesthood meeting on Sunday, and then there is the eye doctor.

On this board, you throw endless streams of nonsense from Breitbart that Res and others easily dispense with, and you're left with very little or nothing, and very often you seem not to disagree with the particulars you've been corrected on, but there's always a "what about THIS!" around the corner that you can reach for.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that in the context of jury duty you will also be a different person than you are on this board. When the outside world is blocked out, when the process of being a juror has been broken down to a clear role that is easy to understand. When the law and the evidence has likewise been broken down, and without the distractions of color commentators. I admit there is a possibility that the whole thing could be rigged such that you might feel forced to say he's guilty out of certain technicalities with the way the law is written or the instructions the judge has given. However, there is also a chance that you would come to believe -- as I've seen many times -- that the facts in the particular instance, which are all that matter for the case, indeed indicate that he's guilty.

And I think you ought to consider directing your anger not towards Democrats, but toward Trump himself. If he's as great as y'all think that he is, he could be the same rabble rouser without committing crimes. Everything he's been accused of in court has been trivially avoidable.

[Physics Guy]

I don't know if this is an insight or a banality but it seems as though Trump's position is circular: he's popular for being popular.

The man just seems to have no legitimate conservative credentials at all. Of everything for which conservatives stand, as far as I can tell, Trump has only the opposite. He'd be the last person conservative Americans would admire or support, except for one thing: he won a nomination, and then an election.

The only thing he has is the promise of winning under a conservative banner. That's enough to make a lot of American conservatives see white where they thought they saw black, and endorse Trump as a conservative hero.

He did somehow get going in the first place. That's some universal demagoguery plus some uniquely American sociopolitical stuff that I don't even really want to understand. But at this point I wonder what would happen if Trump somehow fell far enough in the polls that it became clear he was never going to win any big office again. Suppose it became clear to everyone that Biden had a small but solid lead in enough states and Trump was going to get a bunch of votes but just had no chance to win the election. Would all Trump's remaining support then just vanish, to the point that he'd be despised as a loser by most of the people that now support him most strongly? Would suddenly nobody at all ever have liked Donald Trump?

Anyway, Trumpism seems to me to have this cloud-castle, Sauron's Ring vibe of everything actually being far more fragile than it seems: the great and terrible Oz. Perhaps I'm just too optimistic. Or perhaps there is nothing to Trumpism but Trumpism itself?

[Moksha]

Should Trump get a 30-60-90 day sentence? If Trump calls for a civil war, will the MAGAs respond?

[ajax18]

I'll continue to do the best I can.

You mentioned the jurors are essentially brainwashed into voting against Trump. I think the basic concern is valid.

However, you ought to also consider that we are different people in different contexts. When you're posting on Stormfront, you aren't exactly the same Ajax who posts where, who isn't exactly the same Ajax in priesthood meeting on Sunday, and then there is the eye doctor.

On this board, you throw endless streams of nonsense from Breitbart that Res and others easily dispense with, and you're left with very little or nothing, and very often you seem not to disagree with the particulars you've been corrected on, but there's always a "what about THIS!" around the corner that you can reach for.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that in the context of jury duty you will also be a different person than you are on this board. When the outside world is blocked out, when the process of being a juror has been broken down to a clear role that is easy to understand. When the law and the evidence has likewise been broken down, and without the distractions of color commentators. I admit there is a possibility that the whole thing could be rigged such that you might feel forced to say he's guilty out of certain technicalities with the way the law is written or the instructions the judge has given. However, there is also a chance that you would come to believe -- as I've seen many times -- that the facts in the particular instance, which are all that matter for the case, indeed indicate that he's guilty.

And I think you ought to consider directing your anger not towards Democrats, but toward Trump himself. If he's as great as y'all think that he is, he could be the same rabble rouser without committing crimes. Everything he's been accused of in court has been trivially avoidable.

You know I'm trying to have compassion upon the Democrats. I take our Lord's admonition to love our enemies, do good to those that hate you, and pray for those that despitefully use you, seriously. And yet I do not believe in a God who excuses sin, which is the leftwing view in their slogan, "Jesus, He gets us." No unclean thing will enter the kingdom of Heaven. I honestly feel sorry for what awaits the Democrats if they do not repent. I've walked without the spirit of the Lord to quicken me in my life and I could barely get out of bed many times. I felt real power in the Spirit of the Lord today during fast and testimony meeting, quickening my worn out physical body and foggy mind. And it hasn't just been on Sunday lately. I felt it quicken my ailing body and get me through the workday this past week. I never knew that spiritual power was this real or available to mortals. Listen to Elder Holland or any of the Brethren's talks and tell me how men who should have been in their graves 20 years ago are this enlightened, sharp. and inspiring. And I honestly feel sorry for those who have to face life without that extra help. So yeah, I am a different Ajax than the one who posted on Stromfront or the one who posted here years ago. I've found my way, my peace, and I've found satisfactory answers to all my questions. I feel sad for America, for my homeland of Virginia, my culture, my people and our way of life similar to how Mormon felt watching his relatives be slaughtered by the Gadianton robbers. I mourn that we've broken the American covenant, a covenant between our people and Jesus Christ to possess what is surely the promised land, given to the seed of Joseph as an inheritance. As a people and a civilization we're lost. But as an individual whether I'm incarcerated, humiliated, crippled, or even slain, all that really matters is if my spirit is sanctified and close to the Lord.

And yes I love and pray for Donald Trump. I believe he's an incredibly strong man. But even he cannot overcome the world. All things must be done in the Lord's way or He cannot help us. The Lord is ultimately the only one who can win this battle for us, but He'll never do what we're not willing to do for ourselves. Whatever happens in this election, I'm calm and confident like never before because I now know God can turn all things for my good.

[Chap]

And yes I love and pray for Donald Trump. I believe he's an incredibly strong man. But even he cannot overcome the world.

Twelve pretty ordinary New Yorkers were selected out of a large field, in a process in which the defence as well as the prosecution were allowed to exclude jury candidates who they felt might be biassed against the case they intended to make - whether for Donald Trump or against him.

The defence did all they could do give the jury reasons for not finding Donald Trump guilty of at least some of the 34 charges against him. The jury heard all their arguments, as they did the arguments of the prosecution.

But, in the end every single juror voted to convict him on every one of the 34 counts. Not a single one went for 'not guilty'.

Don't you think it is just possible that they were honestly persuaded (as I am myself, after following the trial with some attention) that the prosecution had a strong case, and that the defence had not succeeded in knocking any significant holes in that case? Or do you want to insist that every single one of those jurors was a puppet whose strings were being invisibly pulled by the forces of evil? How on earth could that have been done, do you think?

[huckelberry]

I imagine that there are a good number of Trump supporters who may think yes he appears to be guilty but its just a small technical overstep upsetting only bureaucrats which he made so I will just forgive and support him anyway. besides overstepping bureaucratic rules is likable.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

You know I'm trying to have compassion upon the Democrats. I take our Lord's admonition to love our enemies, do good to those that hate you, and pray for those that despitefully use you, seriously. And yet I do not believe in a God who excuses sin, which is the leftwing view in their slogan, "Jesus, He gets us." No unclean thing will enter the kingdom of Heaven. I honestly feel sorry for what awaits the Democrats if they do not repent. I've walked without the spirit of the Lord to quicken me in my life and I could barely get out of bed many times. I felt real power in the Spirit of the Lord today during fast and testimony meeting, quickening my worn out physical body and foggy mind. And it hasn't just been on Sunday lately. I felt it quicken my ailing body and get me through the workday this past week. I never knew that spiritual power was this real or available to mortals. Listen to Elder Holland or any of the Brethren's talks and tell me how men who should have been in their graves 20 years ago are this enlightened, sharp. and inspiring. And I honestly feel sorry for those who have to face life without that extra help. So yeah, I am a different Ajax than the one who posted on Stromfront or the one who posted here years ago. I've found my way, my peace, and I've found satisfactory answers to all my questions. I feel sad for America, for my homeland of Virginia, my culture, my people and our way of life similar to how Mormon felt watching his relatives be slaughtered by the Gadianton robbers. I mourn that we've broken the American covenant, a covenant between our people and Jesus Christ to possess what is surely the promised land, given to the seed of Joseph as an inheritance. As a people and a civilization we're lost. But as an individual whether I'm incarcerated, humiliated, crippled, or even slain, all that really matters is if my spirit is sanctified and close to the Lord.

And yes I love and pray for Donald Trump. I believe he's an incredibly strong man. But even he cannot overcome the world. All things must be done in the Lord's way or He cannot help us. The Lord is ultimately the only one who can win this battle for us, but He'll never do what we're not willing to do for ourselves. Whatever happens in this election, I'm calm and confident like never before because I now know God can turn all things for my good.

So, for anyone who isn’t aware of what a lunatic sounds like, or what lunacy looks like, well, today is your lucky day.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

I do not believe in a God who excuses sin

Yet...Trump is your guy. Do you really think there's no other explanation for us other than we're brainwashed by Democrats?

Trump is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. And in a pattern that I think is straight out of a psychology textbook.

[ajax18]

I do not believe in a God who excuses sin

Yet...Trump is your guy. Do you really think there's no other explanation for us other than we're brainwashed by Democrats?

Trump is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. And in a pattern that I think is straight out of a psychology textbook.

This was never about Trump the individual. This is an attack on anyone who dares to challenge the political establishment. It would be the same if it were any other America First Republican, be it J*D Vance, Ron DeSantis, Tim Scott, Ted Cruz, or anyone that worked on the Trump campaign like Paul Manafort, Carter Paige, Donald Trump Jr., Eric, Trump. This is just weaponization of what should have been an apolitical justice system to win what you couldn't win in an election. And you've been doing it since the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. It's election interference and it's unconstitutional. You can't just throw someone in jail because you don't like his politics and have reason to fear he might get enough votes to win.

In a way Donald Trump underestimated just how evil the Democrat establishment really is. Growing up LDS we learned pretty early that our legal system only produces just results when you have moral people. The Missouri settlers had the same fear of losing political power as more Saints moved into Missouri. There was no freedom of religion for Mormons. None of the constitution mattered and there was no justice, no not even in the United States of America.

Let me share Glenn Beck's monologue if you're confused about how conservatives see this.

Is this a setting sun or a rising sun? Is this the day historians will write down the end of America? Is this the day its people fell asleep and just didn’t really recognize it or is it the beginning of a new chapter? We are in our history and in our lives faced with challenges that test our resolve, all the time, push us to the limits, and it’s in these moments where everything seems so unwinnable, everything seems so steep, the odds are all against us and those are the times you discover who you really are. Those are the times you forge your character. We as a nation because we have been fat and lazy and have everything handed to us don’t really know who we are. Most people never change because they’re afraid, or I’ll speak for myself. When I was at my worst, I was afraid that there was nothing good in me, nothing there to discover, so I was afraid to look. But you’ll never find those things unless you look, unless you embrace the hard things. You have to understand that every trial, every setback will make you stronger, will make you stronger, will make you wiser, will make you more gentle. America today is the day of choosing. Today is the day of choosing. It is now our turn to step up and save the Republic and the world. Make no mistake. The world is watching. And I hope you feel the weight of that expectation. I hope you realize the sting of failure that will come if we don’t step up. I thought a lot about Rudyard Kipling last night. I thought a lot about Teddy Roosevelt. If may paraphrase his poem about the man in the arena. It is not the critic who counts, but the one who dares to step into the ring, the one who dares to risk everything, who will fail over and over and over again but continues to get up tired, face marred with blood and mud but he goes up again and again and again. It’s really easy to quit. It’s easy to say we have no chance. It’s easy to be knocked down and as humiliating as it is to lie face down in the dirt, that’s exactly what every bully wants you to do. That’s why every bully, they command, “Stay down!” Don’t get up again. Stay down or I’ll give you a bigger beating. But the man who inspires others to stand continues to get up, wobbly, barely able to fight, but he refuses to bend the knee, refuses to surrender to the bully. Failure is not the end. Nor was this stain on American justice yesterday. It is simply a stepping stone to the path of greatness, stepping stone to make America Great Again. That’s not just a slogan for a campaign. That is true. We have lost our way. We have become an embarrassment for everything we say we stand for. Each fall teaches us resilience. Each setback strengthens our determination. Every the bully knocks us down and says, “Stay down!” Every time we get up there is someone in the crowd watching who then turns our way and then sees the bully for who they really are. Oh Lord, hear the words of my mouth. Save our Republic! But He will only match us. If we don’t get up. He will not help us. If we don’t follow Him, He will not, He cannot help us. So what have now today is a decision. Do we get up or do we lie face down in the dirt? What is possibly worth taking these beatings? Donald Trump is just a symbol. He’s symbol of what bullies do to anyone who refuses to, “Play it my way!” To stay down! Bullies come to town all the time and they teach everyone to go along, get along, whisper, don’t you even whisper. Don’t you try to help that beaten man stand up. Don’t do it! We must decide will we stand idly by while the crowds chant, “Barrabas!” We want Barrabas! Building anything of value whether it’s a country, a career, a relationship, or simply our own character requires unwavering dedication. We have to be willing to get back up time and time again. To face our fears, to face our doubts, to press on no matter what happens to us. It is through that relentless effort that we become Americans. We discover our true potential not just as people, but as a people the world has always known as Americans. Not the kind of Americans we’ve become, but the kind of Americans we have all striven to be. Or thought we did. I’ve always believe the American was defined by a can do spirit, crossed the Rockies, tamed the west, changed the world, rescued and healed. I didn’t realize how much until I studied history, I mean real history, not the crap they teach you public school. I never really understood how stained our name is from those in power, those who only serve through corruption and greed and sometimes out and out evil, but I have truly always believed and I still believe and I still do today that the American truly believes in honor and integrity and truth and justice, that that is the American way. I will tell you this, that yesterday for those who live in the shadow of fear around the world, yesterday may have changed that belief for most people. But it didn’t change it for me. I will surrender to those words. I will not surrender to the belief that puts me and other Americans into action. Yesterday was a defeat, but we are not done. Each of us coming together you’re not going to do anything grand, I’m not going to do anything grand. I’m not telling you anything you don’t know. We just have to understand that every step together no matter how small contributes to the journey where for people who continue to stand up, those people who refuse to give in, always end up winning. The value is not in just the destination but in the courage and the perseverance that we show along the way. It wasn’t that we always won with no cost. Americans have always paid a high cost for what we believed in. That’s what is admirable. And quite honestly I thing that is what Americans have lost that put us into this position. By doing the hard things, by refusing to give up we build a legacy of strength and integrity, and I fear we’ve squandered it because we didn’t understand it. That’s what we’ve lost. That is what the world will lose should we fail, should America fail.