The Trump Criminal Case MEGATHREAD.

[ajax18]

Apart from the horrific consequences of such a blow at one of the most ancient and respected pillars of the Anglo-Saxon legal system - it goes right back to Magna Carta

That's an interesting fact. Thanks for sharing it.

We knew back during the OJ Simpson trial how well this pillar of the Anglo-Saxon legal system works in getting justice. I'm hoping and praying for the day that Jesus Christ is made king of this world and it's either the Lord's way or the highway. That's the only time this world will ever see justice or a functioning legal system.

[Moksha]

I'm hoping and praying for the day that Jesus Christ is made king of this world and it's either the Lord's way or the highway. That's the only time this world will ever see justice or a functioning legal system.

When He announces "Die in the name of Holy Justice" everyone who didn't believe the election was stolen from Trump will be sorry!

[Kishkumen]

So Trump was convicted on all 34 charges of the indictment. As someone who sees Trump as an incurable grifter, based on his long record of fraud and failure, I was pretty happy with the outcome of his NY trial . . . until I read this Vox article on the topic:

https://www.vox.com/politics/353111/tru ... -convicted

This piece explains the weaknesses of the case against Trump, which do not amount to an invalidation of the prosecution but at least show grounds for very reasonable disagreement. I think it is entirely possible that an appeal could be successful.

Of course, Republicans have done their very best to help Trump evade and delay the more serious charges, so it is disingenuous at best for those who have protected Trump, and refused to convict on his impeachments, citing the courts as the proper remedy, to claim now that the judicial remedy was also improper. It was creative, sure, but not improper.

What Republicans do not see, or will not admit publicly, is that they need to stop Trump every bit as much as we do. In fact, they need it more. Right now they are along for a terrifying ride steered by populist extremists who thirst for strongman government to give them what the Constitutional Republic cannot. Only the rare, truly principled Republican is pushing back, and that means being pushed out.

If the regular people supporting Trump were not blinded by their extremism, hatred for the opposition, and shortsighted desires, they would see what really happened in that trial and think long and hard about giving Trump their vote again.

What happened is that Trump lost a very winnable case. And it is clear that his loss stems from his meddling in his own defense to make his second-rate lawyers defend his brand instead of focus on substantive legal issues. He did this because it is what he understands and cares about. It also tells you all you need to know about Trump’s fitness for the job of president. We saw it during COVID, but it was mitigated somewhat by adults in the room. Next time we will have a lot less of that protection.

We can set aside the fact that Trump is a charlatan who has committed multiple crimes. The root problem is that he is so ill-suited for the job that he is dangerous. Only someone drowning in cynicism could vote for this guy truly understanding who he is. Sadly, we are in that place. A fair number of people will vote once again to make Trump president knowing full well that he is a wrecking ball.

[Some Schmo]

It also tells you all you need to know about Trump’s fitness for the job of president. We saw it during COVID, but it was mitigated somewhat by adults in the room. Next time we will have a lot less of that protection.

We can set aside the fact that Trump is a charlatan who has committed multiple crimes. The root problem is that he is so ill-suited for the job that he is dangerous. Only someone drowning in cynicism could vote for this guy truly understanding who he is. Sadly, we are in that place. A fair number of people will vote once again to make Trump president knowing full well that he is a wrecking ball.

That has always been my primary criticism of voting for Trump: he lacks competence.

We've had corrupt presidents, sex addicts, liars and bigots, but I don't remember having all of those in one president, and at least the others weren't all terrible at the job. My personal distaste for Trump is secondary to me knowing he is not fit to lead. He's way too stupid and irresponsible.

It just goes to show that millions of people are terrible at judging character and competence, or are too ignorant to understand the consequences of hiring such a child for the job.

[Gadianton]

What happened is that Trump lost a very winnable case. And it is clear that his loss stems from his meddling in his own defense to make is second-rate lawyers defend his brand instead of focus on substantive legal issues.

I've seen similar commentary, although more along the lines of he could have done much better vs. "he should have won".

It's a great point that Ajax should fear Trump's incompetency even if he respects his ideology; when a leader is so blinded by their messaging that they create endless potholes for themselves if not undo themselves entirely. Of course, the pro-Ajax argument would go something like this: it's the bet of the century. Burning a real defense for messaging could make sense if it increases his election chances, which it possibly does.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Apart from the horrific consequences of such a blow at one of the most ancient and respected pillars of the Anglo-Saxon legal system - it goes right back to Magna Carta

That's an interesting fact. Thanks for sharing it.

We knew back during the OJ Simpson trial how well this pillar of the Anglo-Saxon legal system works in getting justice. I'm hoping and praying for the day that Jesus Christ is made king of this world and it's either the Lord's way or the highway. That's the only time this world will ever see justice or a functioning legal system.

This is what a lunatic sounds like. When they have no argument, they point to an irregularity of the system, proclaim it to be the baseline, and then start babbling about God stuff.

Holy “F” our educational system needs some serious tweaking.

- Doc

[Some Schmo]

We knew back during the OJ Simpson trial how well this pillar of the Anglo-Saxon legal system works in getting justice. I'm hoping and praying for the day that Jesus Christ is made king of this world and it's either the Lord's way or the highway. That's the only time this world will ever see justice or a functioning legal system.

This is what a lunatic sounds like. When they have no argument, they point to an irregularity of the system, proclaim it to be the baseline, and then start babbling about God stuff.

Holy “F” our educational system needs some serious tweaking.

- Doc

If you're dumb enough to think a magical Jesus is going to be reborn and rule as a king, well... that's how dumb you have to be to support Trump. No wonder religious nuts love him. They live in a pathetic fantasy world.

[Kishkumen]

That has always been my primary criticism of voting for Trump: he lacks competence.

We've had corrupt presidents, sex addicts, liars and bigots, but I don't remember having all of those in one president, and at least the others weren't all terrible at the job. My personal distaste for Trump is secondary to me knowing he is not fit to lead. He's way too stupid and irresponsible.

It just goes to show that millions of people are terrible at judging character and competence, or are too ignorant to understand the consequences of hiring such a child for the job.

Yes, he very obviously lacks competence. His one genuine talent is in building a brand in a world of television and tabloids. Unfortunately, in our corrupted political and media environment brand means a whole lot, too much, in fact. Couple his brand-building acumen with a complete dearth of character and titanic incompetence, and you have a one-man wrecking crew. His long record of numerous frauds and failures represents him accurately.

The only place where he can really shine is on tv. Without tv, there is no Trump. Long ago, we were told that tv was a problem, but people either did not believe it or had no power to do anything about it. Trump is the ultimate tv politician. What he actually does is not nearly as important to his followers as who he appears to be. His talent at being a big tv brand is what lent him a patina of legitimacy and gravitas for an electorate that has long since lost any means of accurately assessing legitimacy and gravitas.

Trump shares his viewers' blindness. He believes his own BS, for the most part. This is why I don't buy into Gad's argument that Trump calculated his approach to the NY trial. Trump was just doing what he does. He is the hammer for whom everything is a nail. The effectiveness of his approach resides in the fact that his fans see the world in exactly the same way.

[Kishkumen]

I've seen similar commentary, although more along the lines of he could have done much better vs. "he should have won".

I am not saying he should have won. I am saying he could have won. How he lost and what that shows us are the salient points here. How he lost is completely consistent with everything we know about Trump and how he operates. If we were trying to assess Trump objectively as a person who is or is not able to be effective, we should focus on this aspect of the trial--how he caused his defense to fail--more than the merits of the charges.

Of course, the pro-Ajax argument would go something like this: it's the bet of the century. Burning a real defense for messaging could make sense if it increases his election chances, which it possibly does.

I considered this while I was writing my post. I didn't go with that conclusion because, as I say above in response to Some Schmo, Trump did what he does all the time. I don't know that there was any calculation in his actions. He is the brand guy doing what he can to protect his brand. He was that same guy when he got into this mess in the first place. He just doubles and triples down on the same approach ad nauseam.

What makes it effective is that he has fertile ground to work. I am not convinced that many people are capable of understanding what substantive statesmanship looks like. I remember a very accurate and hilarious description of New Gingrich: "He is a stupid man's idea of what a smart man looks like." Trump's version might go something like this: "He is a loser's idea of what a winner looks like." In each case, image is more important than substance. Our politics have steadily wandered further and further away from substance, until the complete abdication of substance by one of the major parties does not even register with its supporters. This is the perfect vehicle for the candidate who has nothing but an image to offer.

[Res Ipsa]

I'm predicting a hung jury in the Hunter Biden case. The case will take place in Delaware where Biden is Lord and master (85% Democrat) and has a reputation of bringing home the federal pork barrels for the Delaware state community.

So you are suggesting that the verdict of a jury in a criminal case may from henceforth be dismissed as merely an expression of the political color of that state, rather than the honest view of 12 ordinary Americans?

Apart from the horrific consequences of such a blow at one of the most ancient and respected pillars of the Anglo-Saxon legal system - it goes right back to Magna Carta - do you realise that if your attack succeeds it will have the following consequences:

(a) The verdict of a jury in a Republican dominated state on an accused known to be a Democratic supporter can similarly be dismissed as no more than an expression of the political color of the state, with no moral significance as expressing the honest view of 12 ordinary Americans.

(b) It will inevitably lead on to calls for the abolition of the jury system as a waste of time, so that the guilt or innocence of the accused is simply decided on the basis of whether or not their politics are the same as the majority of voters in the state in which they are being tried (not guilty) or different from that of the majority of voters in the state in which they are being tried (guilty).

Do you really want to go there?

Ajax has sold out his values in the name of Trump. Therefore, he thinks that everyone else has sold out their values. Attacking the integrity of jurors he knows nothing about just shows how little integrity he actually has.

Ajax, did you know that the judge won’t let one of Hunter’s experts testify — something that you Trumpers claim was slam dunk evidence of a corrupt judge? Or that the judge ruled evidence that the gun shop employees changed the form Hunter signed twice after he signed it is inadmissible, preventing Hunter from attacking the gun shop employee’s credibility as a witness? Horrors! This kind of stuff outrages you when it’s Trump. Why not when it’s Biden.

Did you know that Trump in the Florida is arguing that the Special Prosecutor was improperly appointed and that his judge has called a special hearing? Did you know that Hunter’s judge dismissed the same argument out of hand? Hmm, both were appointed by Republicans — Trump’s judge by Trump himself. What’s up with that?

Did you know that Bragg, the guy Trump’s cultists want to throw in jail for daring to successfully prosecute a criminal named Trump, inherited a ready to go RICO case that would have landed Trump in Prison. Bragg reviewed it and exercised his independent judgment that the case wasn’t strong enough and refused to prosecute it. At least one of the people that worked on the case quit because he believed the case was so strong.

In Hunter’s case, the prosecution offered a plea deal, which was negotiated and agreed to. After Relief Society in Congress carried out a campaign of intimidation and threats, the prosecutor reneged and then tried to use the contents of the plea deal to prosecute Hunter.

But tell me again how the deep state has been out to get Trump.