The Trump Criminal Case MEGATHREAD.

[Some Schmo]

For the Sovereigns, there is no benefit. It's foot shooting of the worst kind. Some of these people go to jail over and over again, licenses suspended, get their cars impounded, rack up criminal records which hurt employment opportunities, and there is no possible endgame that makes sense. If they win then what? They save a couple hundred bucks a year on car registration?

But here's the thing, as an evolutionist, there has to be a reason for it. It has to make sense at some level. The best I can come up with, is that on the individual level, there is some kind of a weird psychological payoff when taking on this roll. A fanatics mindset, even if self-destructive, simplifies the world.

I imagine a lot of it is the feeling they belong to an important group. If you convince yourself that baby-eating communists are trying to destroy your country, you'll look to any lunatic to help fend off that "problem." I'm sure many think they're helping the country, if they really believe that crap.

I think they've been conditioned and convinced of bad premises for years now and have taken it from there.

The last sentence I quoted of yours I think is the best explanation. People like tidy explanations for complex things, and nothing is more simplified into complete inaccuracy than a Trump explanation for anything. We've known for years that lots of people value mental comfort over confronting reality. That's how religion survives. And of course, you can't underestimate the power of the tribe.

Also, from an evolutionary standpoint, it feels like nature doesn't favor too much intelligence, or at least, too much compassion. We are a social species who have learned to preserve fellow organisms in our species that might otherwise die before they could reproduce if they were some other animal. We take pride in that, and we should, but it is counter to the idea of natural selection. Evolution is adaptation, and our current state reflects that we've adapted to the point where a lot of us don't need to reproduce, and a lot of people who otherwise couldn't have, do. We've gotten smart enough, as far as nature's concerned.

Smarter people have less kids. People willing to indoctrinate tend to have more. Nature seems to be pushing toward more average people, or at the very least, hamper what we might think is progress.

[Physics Guy]

Evolution is slow. Until recently, everybody had about equally many kids if they survived, and smarter people survived more, so that's how humans got smart at all. One pessimistic hypothesis is that this is self-limiting and we're starting to see it, because smart humans have made the world safer for humans such that even less-smart humans can survive.

It may be that we have met the Great Filter and it is us. Or maybe this is just a blip like the Great Depression, bad at the time but in the big picture only a blip.

[Some Schmo]

I'm thinking about this from the standpoint of the roughly 70,000 - 160,000 year history of modern humans. The hardware our earliest ancestors had has gotten us this far (and I imagine we can go farther in terms of knowledge and discovery), but we might be at the pinnacle of brain growth as a species, or this iteration of hominids, given the way we've mastered our environment (to this point).

So, you know... we're stuck with what we've got.

ETA: It occurs to me that all I'm really saying is that because we're human, we have human brains, which isn't saying much. If a new, smarter species were to emerge from homo sapien, something catastrophic has to happen to our environment, we'll all be long gone by then, and it would be a new species.

[Kishkumen]

The Relief Society whipped up the MAGA thugs, who threatened the prosecutor and his family. He testified about them. Being that, Congressional interference in a pending case by calling the prosecutor on the carpet in a public hearing is an attempt at pure intimidation. Congress has no legitimate constitutional role in a current criminal prosecution.

It's only intimidation if you have something to hide. Congress had no problem grilling Don Jr. in an attempt to perjury trap him and declare him a traitor to the US and a Russian operative.

Is Don Jr. a prosecutor? Do you even TRY to think things through before you post them?

[Kishkumen]

Oh, I totally agree. I don't even think the more competent lawyers he's had who give in, give in because they see the advantage of messaging either; I think they give in reluctantly because he's the client, he's got deep pockets, and they bank on being the one lawyer who gets paid.

I'm saying look at it from 20,000 feet above. I'm thinking what's rational in terms of evolution vs. what's rational in terms of -- what actually makes sense. Have you ever watched those cop bodycam videos where they ticket or arrest "Sovereign Citizens"? these are mini-Trump's, or better, the folks who are prime target for demagoguery of the Trump brand. The main difference between these folks as individuals, and Trump, is that when I look at Trump I see the payoff down the road if he wins. For the Sovereigns, there is no benefit. It's foot shooting of the worst kind. Some of these people go to jail over and over again, licenses suspended, get their cars impounded, rack up criminal records which hurt employment opportunities, and there is no possible endgame that makes sense. If they win then what? They save a couple hundred bucks a year on car registration?

But here's the thing, as an evolutionist, there has to be a reason for it. It has to make sense at some level. The best I can come up with, is that on the individual level, there is some kind of a weird psychological payoff when taking on this roll. A fanatics mindset, even if self-destructive, simplifies the world. And no, though likely practiced, I don't think it's something they could just "turn off" if they wanted to, anymore than I think Ajax is capable of fully understanding an political or economic reality even if he really wants to, and that's not because of intelligence. As a group, the power seems to be in the ability to exhaust the system. As more people take on the role, resources are used up and there is the temptation to "let them have their way" because the cost of dealing with it becomes too high.

Squatting is an in-between case, there is a similar power to exhaust the system (yes Ajax, you're very much like a squatter if you think about it), but the material stimulus is stronger than the ideological stimulus. The ideological stimulus I imagine increases over time, however, as most people, even if driven significantly by material need, don't want to see themselves as doing something wrong. And so if a squatter (somebody on the level of Ajax psychologically) has taken over your house, by the time the cops can drag them out (or a third party contractor), they will really believe that they are the one being wronged.

All great insights, Dean. I agree that these strategies can feel rewarding in the short term and that they arise out of intelligible rationales. At the same time, they are extremely frustrating and baffling to onlookers.

[Kishkumen]

Evolution is slow. Until recently, everybody had about equally many kids if they survived, and smarter people survived more, so that's how humans got smart at all. One pessimistic hypothesis is that this is self-limiting and we're starting to see it, because smart humans have made the world safer for humans such that even less-smart humans can survive.

It may be that we have met the Great Filter and it is us. Or maybe this is just a blip like the Great Depression, bad at the time but in the big picture only a blip.

As dark as this seems, it is probably true.

[ajax18]

It's only intimidation if you have something to hide. Congress had no problem grilling Don Jr. in an attempt to perjury trap him and declare him a traitor to the US and a Russian operative.

Is Don Jr. a prosecutor? Do you even TRY to think things through before you post them?

Maybe the DOJ needs to be questioned on it's political bias by the other half of the country. That sounds a lot more like democracy to me. Refusing to release the tape of Biden incoherently trying to explain away his criminal possession of classified documents on the grounds that it may scare future defendants who testify while releasing the transcript doesn't make much sense. It gets a lot harder to get your lies straight the older you get. A younger Biden could have done so easier.

[Doctor Steuss]

In Trump's recent little Fox News interview over the weekend, he was asked about whether he'd declassify documents (y'know, to shine light on the Deep State, and whatnot).

When asked if he'd declassify the 9/11 files. He responded, "Yes."

When asked if he'd declassify the JFK files. He responded, "Yes."

When asked if he'd declassify the Epstein files... well... in that instance, "I guess I would. I think that, less so" because those documents could "affect people's lives."

Sometimes, even professional liars lose sight of the script when they know they're guilty of something.

Daily Show Light-hearted Take
How It's Reported Elsewhere in the World, Courtesy of The HIndustan Times

[Manetho]

Is Don Jr. a prosecutor? Do you even TRY to think things through before you post them?

Maybe the DOJ needs to be questioned on it's political bias by the other half of the country. That sounds a lot more like democracy to me. Refusing to release the tape of Biden incoherently trying to explain away his criminal possession of classified documents on the grounds that it may scare future defendants who testify while releasing the transcript doesn't make much sense. It gets a lot harder to get your lies straight the older you get. A younger Biden could have done so easier.

Translation: "No, and here's a paragraph of irrelevant babbling to prove it."

[Kishkumen]

Maybe the DOJ needs to be questioned on it's political bias by the other half of the country.

You only say this when you don’t get your way. And your way is a free pass for your cult leader. Nothing less would be satisfactory for you, whether you are capable of admitting it or not.