RFM on Kamp in Court

[drumdude]

I’ll just note that I am someone who has donated my hard earned money to John Dehlin, because I supported him. The rosebud affair is indeed tragic.

[pistolero]

I’ll just note that I am someone who has donated my hard earned money to John Dehlin, because I supported him. The rosebud affair is indeed tragic.

It seems that there is general agreement on many aspects of JD's character. And if there was a dead horse being flogged, this feels like it... until the next scandal of course.

On the other hand, JD has tapped into something and he is extremely good at doing what he does. I don't know much about recovery from religions in general, but are there similar characters in JW-dom or other religions, that have been as successful (financially) as JD, turning over $1M a year in a 501 non-profit or whatever they are called?

I just clicked on the Fundraisers tab of Mormon Stories and was blown away by the number of people having Birthday fundraisers for MS. How does he do this? They can't all be gullible? Drum, you're not gullible are you? Or do you feel duped?

At some point someone should start a thread "The Genius of John Dehlin" and start a discussion on how and why he is so successful.

[Res Ipsa]

I’ll just note that I am someone who has donated my hard earned money to John Dehlin, because I supported him. The rosebud affair is indeed tragic.

If I was aware of that, I had forgotten. I think that gives you a stake in the whole thing that I don't have.

[Kishkumen]

To be clear, I'm applying John's standard of informed consent to himself. John who criticized the church for hiding the essays on an obscure corner of the website instead of putting them in 100pt font on the homepage of LDS.org.

This is not my standard of informed consent that I'm talking about, it's John's.

I have never bought into John’s standard of informed consent anyway. I still don’t think that his obligation to be transparent is anything like his idea of what the LDS Church should be transparent about. For the record, I only support the idea of the LDS Church being more transparent about its finances.

[drumdude]

To be clear, I'm applying John's standard of informed consent to himself. John who criticized the church for hiding the essays on an obscure corner of the website instead of putting them in 100pt font on the homepage of LDS.org.

This is not my standard of informed consent that I'm talking about, it's John's.

I have never bought into John’s standard of informed consent anyway. I still don’t think that his obligation to be transparent is anything like his idea of what the LDS Church should be transparent about. For the record, I only support the idea of the LDS Church being more transparent about its finances.

Yeah, I think it’s just a pretense for him to dig up as much dirt as possible on the church. Recently he was even reporting on the membership status of a few believing gay couples without their consent, just because it made the church look bad:

https://www.deseret.com/2024/2/5/240625 ... n-stories/

As LGBTQ leaders who value and work with people of faith to advance the rights of all people, we reject in the strongest terms, the recent actions of John Dehlin and the organization he leads, Mormon Stories,” read the statement signed by Troy Williams, executive director of Equality Utah, Sara Burlingame, executive director of Wyoming Equality and Michael Soto, president of Equality Arizona.

“Everyone, absolutely everyone, regardless of how public or private their life is, has the right to practice their faith and belief system, or lack thereof, within the community they choose.”

The statement concluded: “There is no room in our movement for the harassment of individuals in their place of worship or because of their LGBTQ identities.”

In a lengthy post on Reddit responding to and denying the allegations, Dehlin said, “If any apologies are going to happen, I think that the first apology should be Troy, Sara, and Michael apologizing for making such an irresponsible set of accusations without taking the time to gather any evidence, or speak to the parties involved.”

After he finished interviewing every scholar on earth, with some really great episodes, he’s just left scraping the barrel and muckraking.

[Moksha]

As LGBTQ leaders who value and work with people of faith to advance the rights of all people, we reject in the strongest terms, the recent actions of John Dehlin and the organization he leads, Mormon Stories,” read the statement signed by Troy Williams, executive director of Equality Utah, Sara Burlingame, executive director of Wyoming Equality and Michael Soto, president of Equality Arizona.”

These directors never viewed the couple's videos. They are all about outing themselves. Those three directors are ninnies probably trying to curry favor for a donation from the Church.

[jpatterson]

Oh I see we're back to the "I never put my penis in anyone so therefore I'm not a liar" part of John's argument.

How anyone gives money or legal advice for free to this guy is beyond me.

[jpatterson]

I’ll just note that I am someone who has donated my hard earned money to John Dehlin, because I supported him. The rosebud affair is indeed tragic.

It seems that there is general agreement on many aspects of John Dehlin's character. And if there was a dead horse being flogged, this feels like it... until the next scandal of course.

On the other hand, John Dehlin has tapped into something and he is extremely good at doing what he does. I don't know much about recovery from religions in general, but are there similar characters in JW-dom or other religions, that have been as successful (financially) as John Dehlin, turning over $1M a year in a 501 non-profit or whatever they are called?

I just clicked on the Fundraisers tab of Mormon Stories and was blown away by the number of people having Birthday fundraisers for MS. How does he do this? They can't all be gullible? Drum, you're not gullible are you? Or do you feel duped?

At some point someone should start a thread "The Genius of John Dehlin" and start a discussion on how and why he is so successful.

Are you really that new to the concept of emotional grifting?

We have an ex President who teaches an ongoing master class in it. John simply has embraced that same approach.

It's not nearly as difficult as you might think to find gullible people willing to part with their money to the latest pied piper. John wields a very effective flute.

[drumdude]

Rosebud is back at it, uploading a previously-deleted Infants on Thrones episode about John Dehlin.

Back in 2018, for a little while, a few ex-Mormons were brave enough to speak out publicly against John Dehlin. It's to John Dehlin's advantage when believing Latter-day Saints criticize him publicly -- he uses believers' criticisms to garner financial support from the new ex-Mormons who are unaware of all this history. This particular podcast, however, was recorded by the Infants on Thrones, all ex-Mormons. The Infants were popular back in their day -- they were actually born just after my own tenure as Director of Operations at Mormon Stories over a decade ago.

Anyway, this podcast references an "Open Letter to John Dehlin," also written by ex-Mormons. The letter had recently been posted to Medium. (It is linked below.)

Please keep in mind that all of this happened years before Jenn Kamp appeared on the scene. Maybe Jenn Kamp was still a believing Mormon happily attending church back in 2018. I don't know. Maybe she listened to some of John Dehlin's Mormon Stories podcasts and realized that the church wasn't everything it claimed to be. Maybe she then went through what John Dehlin calls a "Faith Crisis" and wanted to do something to give back to the ex-Mormon community. Maybe the fact that she had been sexually abused in the Mormon church played into her desire to help other ex-Mormons. That is a story only she can tell.

Regardless, John Dehlin chose her, out of all his tens and thousands of listeners, to be an Open Stories Foundation volunteer, then employee, and then to come on his podcast.

That, of course, changed Jenn Kamp's life.

But, like others before her, Jenn Kamp wasn't happy with the way John Dehlin treated her while she was working for Mormon Stories. Eventually, she reported him to the board of directors and the Open Stories Foundation fired her. Not a new story.

But then, what was new, was that Jenn Kamp had seen a more recent document (possibly 2022, I can't remember) written by Kate Kelly, the founder of Ordain Women, who had been excommunicated alongside John Dehlin way back in 2015. Kate Kelly's document is entitled "We do not support John Dehlin" (see below for link) and had been signed by several ex-Mormon women.

Jenn Kamp then decided to start her own podcast (called "Our Truth Be Told") and, as far as I can tell, made some false statements about the women who had signed Kate Kelly's document. Jenn Kamp falsely podcasted that all the women who had signed the document had personally been harmed by John Dehlin when, in fact, that was not true. What was true, of course, was that all of the women had agreed to the language in the document itself and were brave enough to stand up to John Dehlin publicly. Some of the women had been personally harmed by John Dehlin, of course, but not all of them. Some, as far as I can tell, are simply influential women in the ex-Mormon community.

And any woman who likes can request to add their name to the document to express their support for Kate Kelly's statement. Link below! Just click through!

John Dehlin was super sensitive about Jenn Kamp's false public statements, so he sued her for defamation. (NOTE: Despite reports online, John Dehlin was the Plaintiff, not Jenn Kamp. Jenn Kamp was Defendant.)

John Dehlin, Mormon Stories, and the Open Stories Foundation have now spent A LOT of money on attorney fees in order to ensure that Jenn Kamp can't address the public about what she witnessed and experienced working for Mormon Stories.

I hear estimates at $300K!!!

I'm going to repeat that in case it didn't sink in: John Dehlin sued Jenn Kamp then spent hundreds of thousands' of dollars of donor money to fight a lawsuit that he started. As far as I can tell, according to Jenn Kamp, John Dehlin even tried to blame her for the fact that he had to spend so much money to sue her by falsely claiming that she hadn't paid an insurance bill that would have covered his legal costs! I don't know. I wasn't there.

I wonder if insurance even covers public figures' lawsuits when they decide to sue former employees for defamation? Maybe?? That sounds like an expensive policy.

Regardless, it would be fantastic if John Dehlin would release the actual amount of money he spent suing Jenn Kamp for defamation so his donors can see, especially considering the fact that he claims his own transparency while calling on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to release their financials. The way I see it, money spent on attorneys to protect the public from hearing what an ex-employee has to say is information his donors have a right to know.

2018 Medium article:

https://medium.com/@markussmith927/open ... d7ad34585c

Kate Kelly Document (Possibly 2022): https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... w/viewform

2022 Salt Lake Tribune Article: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/02 ... podcaster/

2010-2018Documents: https://mormonrosebud.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOu2vbPbNK4

There is also a subreddit devoted to the case:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalyzingJennKamp

[Moksha]

Oh I see we're back to the "I never put my penis in anyone so therefore I'm not a liar" part of John's argument.

How anyone gives money or legal advice for free to this guy is beyond me.

Even stranger is how you carry the piss bucket for Rosebud even when you are not at the Court of Versailles.