UK General Election

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IWMP
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Re: UK General Election

Post by IWMP »

Chap wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 3:06 pm
On tactical voting, have a look at this website, which gives good guidance on how to get rid of Conservatives and avoid having another Conservative government, whether by electing Labour candidates or by ensuring that Conservatives do not get elected:

Here, for instance, is an entry on the Getvoting.org website, which shows how to vote in a constituency where the Labour candidate is unlikely to beat the Conservative candidate, but the Liberal Democrats only need a few more votes to win. The aim is to stop the Conservatives winning the seat on 36.53% of the vote because the anti-conservative vote is split:

https://www.getvoting.org/constituency/E14001532

Here on the other hand is a constituency where the right thing do do is to vote Labour, because they can plausibly win:

https://www.getvoting.org/constituency/E14001089
Put my city in. It said vote with your heart. So no matter who I vote labour will still win here which I knew already.

This place just screams labour when you think of the history with the fishermen.
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IWMP
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Re: UK General Election

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Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:12 pm
IWMP wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:30 am
People can vote for a smaller party and there would be no chance they will win.
No matter how small the party, if the majority of voters voted for it, it would win.
It works strangely. I don't know how it is for you but here it goes by number of constituencies. So one party could actually have the majority of the votes if the larger populated constituencies voted them but if more smaller constituencies voted for the other party, even though there are less people, they would have more seats and win.
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Chap »

IWMP wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 3:44 pm
Dr. Shades wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:12 pm
No matter how small the party, if the majority of voters voted for it, it would win.
It works strangely. I don't know how it is for you but here it goes by number of constituencies. So one party could actually have the majority of the votes if the larger populated constituencies voted them but if more smaller constituencies voted for the other party, even though there are less people, they would have more seats and win.
Almost, but not quite, as bad as the US electoral college system in Presidential elections - where voters in small population states end up with proportionately much greater influence on the result than those in large population states.

Of course, the all-wise Founders seem to have designed this system specifically to avoid the presidential election being determined by the accumulated votes of those who were not, like themselves, 'gentlemen'. They were after all constructing a republic, not a democracy.
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Re: UK General Election

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Chap wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:44 pm
IWMP wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 3:44 pm
It works strangely. I don't know how it is for you but here it goes by number of constituencies. So one party could actually have the majority of the votes if the larger populated constituencies voted them but if more smaller constituencies voted for the other party, even though there are less people, they would have more seats and win.
Almost, but not quite, as bad as the US electoral college system in Presidential elections - where voters in small population states end up with proportionately much greater influence on the result than those in large population states.

Of course, the all-wise Founders seem to have designed this system specifically to avoid the presidential election being determined by the accumulated votes of those who were not, like themselves, 'gentlemen'. They were after all constructing a republic, not a democracy.
Don't tell that to Res Ipsa.
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Re: UK General Election

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Why do you call the welfare party the labour party in the UK? Isn't their constituency made up of people who don't work but survive pulling a welfare benefits check as it is here in America? What percentage of people in the labour party actually hold a job?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:28 pm
Why do you call the welfare party the labour party in the UK? Isn't their constituency made up of people who don't work but survive pulling a welfare benefits check as it is here in America? What percentage of people in the labour party actually hold a job?
You’re making the accusation, so research the answer.

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Re: UK General Election

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ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:28 pm
Why do you call the welfare party the labour party in the UK? Isn't their constituency made up of people who don't work but survive pulling a welfare benefits check as it is here in America? What percentage of people in the labour party actually hold a job?
Probably the same percentage as the conservatives lol.

Chap will be able to answer better.

The labour party is more relevant to the working class, not the "welfare" class. Labour as in work. People in politics don't come off the streets. They would be educated.

All constituencies are mixed. I don't know of any town or city that is made up of people on benefits. Within a town, you will have estates where a good percentage might be on benefits. Most cities have several estates or regions. I live in what could be considered an estate that contains a large amount of people on benefits. It has a reputation. We are both educated at degree level, my husband works full time and earns enough that I don't have pressure to work. I would put us as working class.

The constituencies are scattered. They are regions that don't change location or size very much but who represents that region is based on who wins in that area.

I don't believe there is a welfare party. I'm not sure. Chap? Ohh wait... What about the English defence league? That's probably offensive for me to ask that.

We have people who are on benefits. It's kind of complicated. Some don't want to work, some can't work. We don't really have people who need to work two and three jobs to survive. I can't imagine having two jobs just to get by.

Weird.. mum called. Her phone cut out at 22.22. keep seeing 22.22.
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Chap »

ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:28 pm
Why do you call the welfare party the labour party in the UK? Isn't their constituency made up of people who don't work but survive pulling a welfare benefits check as it is here in America?
No. They address themselves specifically and explicitly to 'working people'. That doesn't mean that they think that people who can't work are some kind of subhuman parasites, because they know that anyone can lose their job or become unable to work through sickness.

The party was founded specifically and explicitly to represent those who did not own much if anything, but worked 'by hand or brain' for wages.

Here is an extract from a recent public statement 'My Plan for Change' by Keir Starmer, leader of the Labour Party:
Every great nation is held together by shared beliefs. To outsiders they may not seem exceptional or distinctive, but they are essential for a sense of collective national purpose. Britain is no different, but at this moment two of our most important beliefs are in grave danger.

First, that politics should be driven by a sense of service to the country, not considerations of party or self-interest.

Second, that if you work hard then – whoever you are, wherever you started in life – Britain is a country that will respect your contribution and give you a fair chance to get on.

When I consider these beliefs, it is hard not to think back to my childhood. Then, as now, Britain’s place in the world was uncertain. Then, as now, our economy was gripped by stuttering growth and a cost-of-living crisis that hurt working people.

Yet back then, there was at least a degree of security in being able to take those two fundamental beliefs for granted. For families like mine, this was a comfort. The knowledge that Britain would offer your children a better future gave us hope. A hope that may not sound high-minded or particularly idealistic, but which families like mine could build a life around.
Get the idea? People who work should be able to have a decent life.
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Re: UK General Election

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I can't imagine having two jobs just to get by.
Most people in America have to do just that thanks to Bidenomics. If you don't take a second job, you're often better off on welfare and many choose this route. It's how the system is set up.
The party was founded specifically and explicitly to represent those who did not own much if anything, but worked 'by hand or brain' for wages.
How do those people working by hand or brain for wages feel about the labour party confiscating those wages to purchase other votes? Labour party seems like such an outdated term that it's darn near oxymoronic at this point. Perhaps at one time they did represent the interest of actual laborers. But it'd be very interesting to see what percentage of their constituents actually pay more in taxes than they collect in benefits.

What party do you belong to my good friend?

Oh I'm 5th generation labour party.

What do you do for a living?

Nothing, the government provides me all I need.

So who does the actual labor?

Not me, that's why we have immigrants.

What did your parents do for a living?

Oh they had a useless government job. The drew a check, but didn't actually have to do any real work.

So how far back do we need to go in your genealogy to find the people who actually did any real labour?

About five generations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnexnY6F4NM

I'm a welfare worker! But I don't work at all.

Gotta love Anglo Saxon culture and what it has become, I may share their DNA but I'm a Virginian. Don't call me English.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: UK General Election

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ajax18 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 7:28 pm
Why do you call the welfare party the labour party in the UK? Isn't their constituency made up of people who don't work but survive pulling a welfare benefits check as it is here in America? What percentage of people in the labour party actually hold a job?
Do you find the Labour Party wears an insufficient amount of monocles at their afternoon tea?
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