Most people in America have to do just that thanks to Bidenomics. If you don't take a second job, you're often better off on welfare and many choose this route. It's how the system is set up.
The party was founded specifically and explicitly to represent those who did not own much if anything, but worked 'by hand or brain' for wages.
How do those people working by hand or brain for wages feel about the labour party confiscating those wages to purchase other votes? Labour party seems like such an outdated term that it's darn near oxymoronic at this point. Perhaps at one time they did represent the interest of actual laborers. But it'd be very interesting to see what percentage of their constituents actually pay more in taxes than they collect in benefits.
What party do you belong to my good friend?
Oh I'm 5th generation labour party.
What do you do for a living?
Nothing, the government provides me all I need.
So who does the actual labor?
Not me, that's why we have immigrants.
What did your parents do for a living?
Oh they had a useless government job. The drew a check, but didn't actually have to do any real work.
So how far back do we need to go in your genealogy to find the people who actually did any real labour?
Gotta love Anglo Saxon culture and what it has become, I may share their DNA but I'm a Virginian. Don't call me English.
Conservative party constituents have people on benefits too. You do know that some people that work receive benefits too right?
I'm not sure how wages are being confiscated.
The scenario you gave is not how it is here. We don't expect immigrants to work for us. In fact I'd be inclined to believe that the immigrants here are more likely to be not working.
Nobody is calling you English.
The systems are a bit weird. Under this government workers are being screwed. The cost of living payments and food vouchers all supported people on benefits and they don't have to pay rent and get help with mortgages. And yet, if you work just above the benefit value and below a decent enough wage you are in that middle range where quality of life is less than those on benefits. I know a family on benefits that has the best bikes, the best of everything. How they do it I don't know. We aren't poor. We've been lucky to have enough but there are people who work who end up poorer and it is those people that need some kind of break. I think the amount politicians give themselves is ridiculous. And to be paid on a very good wage for the rest of your life even if you aren't PM for long needs to be removed.
On tactical voting, have a look at this website, which gives good guidance on how to get rid of Conservatives and avoid having another Conservative government, whether by electing Labour candidates or by ensuring that Conservatives do not get elected:
Here, for instance, is an entry on the Getvoting.org website, which shows how to vote in a constituency where the Labour candidate is unlikely to beat the Conservative candidate, but the Liberal Democrats only need a few more votes to win. The aim is to stop the Conservatives winning the seat on 36.53% of the vote because the anti-conservative vote is split:
In fact I'd be inclined to believe that the immigrants here are more likely to be not working.
Sounds like a pretty sweet deal. Maybe I should move to England. Is that kind of a deal available to Christians or just Muslims?
I'm not sure how wages are being confiscated.
Who do you think pays the taxes to provide for these nonworking immigrants you're bringing into your country? David Beckham or Simon Cowell? I'm guessing that these new immigrants vote for the labor party and yet you just admitted to me that many of them don't participate in the labor force. So why do you call it the labor party? Is it just a holdover from an old tradition that is no longer practiced?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
On tactical voting, have a look at this website, which gives good guidance on how to get rid of Conservatives and avoid having another Conservative government, whether by electing Labour candidates or by ensuring that Conservatives do not get elected:
Here, for instance, is an entry on the Getvoting.org website, which shows how to vote in a constituency where the Labour candidate is unlikely to beat the Conservative candidate, but the Liberal Democrats only need a few more votes to win. The aim is to stop the Conservatives winning the seat on 36.53% of the vote because the anti-conservative vote is split:
What's wrong with a Conservative government?
They are greedy. They create a bigger divide between the rich and poor. They are destroying the NHS. Have you seen the memes about our PM. It's rife this past week because of his comment on not having sky TV as a kid. There is more unemployment. Pretty sure they are responsible for the gas and electric situation. Some people are pissed about Brexit and COVID, but I actually think they did not too bad with COVID given how the rest of the world also dealt with it. The UK is in the crap right now. We as a family are relatively fortunate.
In fact I'd be inclined to believe that the immigrants here are more likely to be not working.
Sounds like a pretty sweet deal. Maybe I should move to England. Is that kind of a deal available to Christians or just Muslims?
pirate wrote:
Are you racist? Genuinely asking. It comes in bursts. The latest is Ukrainians. We had a polish influx a few years back. I doubt the US will get a turn. I understand they are usually fleeing war and yes other countries should help but they are housed and have benefits and everything they need before British citizens. Which would be okay if our own were supported too. And quite often they are housed in expensive hotels paid for by the government.
I'm not sure how wages are being confiscated.
Who do you think pays the taxes to provide for these nonworking immigrants you're bringing into your country? David Beckham or Simon Cowell? I'm guessing that these new immigrants vote for the labor party and yet you just admitted to me that many of them don't participate in the labor force. So why do you call it the labor party? Is it just a holdover from an old tradition that is no longer practiced?
Our taxes don't change. So if no immigrants come in or hundreds come in we don't actually pay anymore tax. I do find the tax situation to be not right but not for the reason of immigration. I think the parliament wages are far too high and they get everything deducted and reimbursed. I think the leaders should not receive a lifetime wage. I think energy suppliers ramping up their prices when they made a profit is disgusting and I'm pretty sure they did it because the government gave them a windfall tax. So we are footing that tax so the energy companies can enjoy their massive incomes. Inflation to me feels manageable made and controlled by the government. I don't see them having to make adjustments to their personal lives to accommodate whatever imaginary things we are supposed to be resolving. They said it was to do with russian oil and yet, how much oil do we actually buy from Russia?
We want labour in because for over a decade the British economy and everything, the NHS, the mental wellbeing, the affordability, have all been declining. We need a change of pace. It doesn't matter who goes in people want a change. The reason people will vote labour is because labour is the only party that has a chance of winning over conservatives.
Labour isn't in power. All of this immigration, everything you are talking about is because of the conservatives. Ajax, you need to separate your understanding of conservative from ours. Your conservatives and our conservatives are not the same. I'm not sure why you have a problem with the word labour and a party using that name. Labour is labour because labour will improve the quality of life for the working class and lower middle class. Conservatives improve the quality of life for the upper class and the upper middle class. Labour will support the NHS instead of raping it up the arse with reduculous rules and targets.
On tactical voting, have a look at this website, which gives good guidance on how to get rid of Conservatives and avoid having another Conservative government, whether by electing Labour candidates or by ensuring that Conservatives do not get elected:
Here, for instance, is an entry on the Getvoting.org website, which shows how to vote in a constituency where the Labour candidate is unlikely to beat the Conservative candidate, but the Liberal Democrats only need a few more votes to win. The aim is to stop the Conservatives winning the seat on 36.53% of the vote because the anti-conservative vote is split:
What's wrong with a Conservative government?
Briefly, we have had fourteen years of Conservatives in power, and at the end of it there is a wide-spread and justified sense that "Everything is in a mess and nothing works any more." The real value of average incomes is still where it was in 2010, although the richest fraction 1% of the population have got a lot richer. Taxes are at unprecedentedly high levels. The National Health service is in crisis, and NHS dentistry has collapsed. The roads are full of potholes, and local services such as care for the elderly and at-risk children are barely functional. Immigration, both legal and illegal, is at an all-time high despite repeated Conservative promises to reduce it. Young people have little hope of being able to buy or rent anywhere decent to live, since prices and rents have risen astronomically, so they end up living with their parents till into their late thirties. During the pandemic, officials and ministers partied in the Prime Minister's office at no 10 Downing Street (and lied about doing so), while the rest of us were not allowed to visit dying relatives in hospital.
And so on. Don't take my word for it: ask the millions of former long-term Conservative voters who now say they will never vote Conservative again, with the result that the Conservative party faces the strong possibility that it will be virtually wiped out at the forthcoming elections.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
The party was founded specifically and explicitly to represent those who did not own much if anything, but worked 'by hand or brain' for wages.
How do those people working by hand or brain for wages feel about the labour party confiscating those wages to purchase other votes? Labour party seems like such an outdated term that it's darn near oxymoronic at this point. Perhaps at one time they did represent the interest of actual laborers. But it'd be very interesting to see what percentage of their constituents actually pay more in taxes than they collect in benefits.
[Long passage of fantasy about people free-loading off taxes for generations]
Reading your post is like reading a Martian writing about an imaginary planet earth about which he has no actual knowledge at all.
Look, British people are not MAGA Americans. A majority of the population believe that it is a good thing that the government should use taxes to fund good public services for all. And that attitude is strengthening as people see what happens when the government fails to do so, and the country begins to fall apart as a result.
See here for two examples (follow the links for the sources):
Anti-welfare attitudes are at an all-time low; just 19% of the population think people get benefits they don’t deserve according to the British Social Attitudes survey
The charity Save the Children finds 71% of the population wanting the value of social benefits for low-income families preserved.
Please consider yourself free to stay in Virginia; people are evidently very different there from those amongst whom I am happy to live. But please do stop spouting nonsense on topics about which you appear to know less than nothing.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Briefly, we have had fourteen years of Conservatives in power, and at the end of it there is a wide-spread and justified sense that "Everything is in a mess and nothing works any more." The real value of average incomes is still where it was in 2010, although the richest fraction 1% of the population have got a lot richer. Taxes are at unprecedentedly high levels. The National Health service is in crisis, and NHS dentistry has collapsed. The roads are full of potholes, and local services such as care for the elderly and at-risk children are barely functional. Immigration, both legal and illegal, is at an all-time high despite repeated Conservative promises to reduce it. Young people have little hope of being able to buy or rent anywhere decent to live, since prices and rents have risen astronomically, so they end up living with their parents till into their late thirties. During the pandemic, officials and ministers partied in the Prime Minister's office at no 10 Downing Street (and lied about doing so), while the rest of us were not allowed to visit dying relatives in hospital.
And so on. Don't take my word for it: ask the millions of former long-term Conservative voters who now say they will never vote Conservative again, with the result that the Conservative party faces the strong possibility that it will be virtually wiped out at the forthcoming elections.
The housing market is ridiculous. My MIL has offered to give us a deposit to buy a house and she just doesn't get it when I say we can't right now. As much as I appreciate the offer, it takes more than a deposit to buy a house and then what? Paying off interest without touching the mortgage. She insists it will be ours. No it won't. And what if something goes wrong? What if it needs a new roof a year after? Or a new boiler? Or worse? The anxiety because every time I talk to her she brings it up because she owns her house that cost £12k when her husband bought it decades ago. She's got that, “you need to own your own home” mindset that just doesn't work for us in this generation. Our house is twice the size and we are paying less than my husband's cousin’s mortgage and he's been hit with fees and all sorts for a 2 bed new build that's going to blow over in a strong wind. Right now I'd rather pay £705 for a 4 bed and know that if anything goes wrong structurally that we aren't responsible. Of course, it would be nice to own a home but not doable.
Labour isn't in power. All of this immigration, everything you are talking about is because of the conservatives. Ajax, you need to separate your understanding of conservative from ours.
You got that right. Your tory party sounds a lot like Mitt Romney/Jeb Bush Republicans. Open borders, racking up scamdemic debt for a virus that 99.96% of people under 70 survived. If your taxes haven't increased who does pay for your immigrants to invade your country, take your land, and live off welfare? I guess a more interesting question would be who keeps voting for that kind of public policy?
Your conservatives and our conservatives are not the same. I'm not sure why you have a problem with the word labour and a party using that name.
Because calling it the labour party connotates that the party is fighting for the interests of people who actually go to work and hold a job, when in reality the labour party fights to take the earnings and property of people who go to work and hold a job so that they can give it to those who don't. The welfare party would be a more appropriate name, if one is to properly label whose interests the party is actually pursuing.
She's got that, “you need to own your own home” mindset that just doesn't work for us in this generation.
It sure doesn't. Steve Bannon has told us for decades that your generation isn't going to own anything. Does the Labour party want to change this or is this an intentional result to help hold off global warming or to reduce the COVID case count?
Last edited by ajax18 on Tue Jun 18, 2024 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
