UK General Election

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Gadianton
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Gadianton »

IWP, if you work for a living, I promise you that you'll get better health care, better education, better groceries, and better quality of life under a free market than a communist system of government.
a "free market" includes free trade; the RINOs believe in a free market to some degree, the MAGA turn is isolationist. It's not clear at all that MAGA leaders could accomplish any spending cuts at home either:

https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states ... overnment/

Talk is cheap, but when it comes to gutting red-state reliance of Federal aid, for instance, let's see the MAGA leaders convince their constituents to do it. (hint: it won't matter, they care about staying in power and posting on Twitter) By the way, Ajax doesn't know anything about economics. Given that, it's hilarious to see how much faith he has in his ideology. He's going to guarantee low prices great pay all around if everyone thinks like Marjorie Taylor-Greene and Donald Trump; good lord.
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Morley
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Morley »

Ajax is an optometrist, one of the most regulated and protected industries in the US. Every step of his education, licensure, and professional life has had the protection and sanction of state, local, and federal governments. He wouldn't have it any other way. His lucrative job wouldn't exist without them. To read an American optometrist glorifying what he says is the "free market' is absolutely hilarious.
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Gadianton
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Gadianton »

Morley wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 4:02 am
Ajax is an optometrist, one of the most regulated and protected industries in the US. Every step of his education, licensure, and professional life has had the protection and sanction of state, local, and federal governments. He wouldn't have it any other way. His lucrative job wouldn't exist without them. To read an American optometrist glorifying what he says is the "free market' is absolutely hilarious.
You know that's a fabulous point, Morley. Better than you even know. I recall articles from the Von Mises institute back in the day criticizing the healthcare industry for this very reason. Not every skinned knee requires twelve years of school to dress, etc.
Social distancing has likely already begun to flatten the curve...Continue to research good antivirals and vaccine candidates. Make everyone wear masks. -- J.D. Vance
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IWMP
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Re: UK General Election

Post by IWMP »

ajax18 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:30 pm
IWMP wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:42 pm
I think it would take years, the damage is steep. At the very least if the level of poverty decreases then that is progress.
I'm not asking if the gap between rich and poor is to be eliminated after the ironically named Labour (Welfare) party is in power for a term. I'm asking if the gap even decreases after one term.

IWP, if you work for a living, I promise you that you'll get better health care, better education, better groceries, and better quality of life under a free market than a communist system of government. Now if you don't work for a living, don't produce anything, and are basically just a worthless person, than you might temporarily get a little better healthcare, a more prestigious degree (Claudine Gay), perhaps even some good welfare cheese. But ultimately even poor worthless people were better off in the USA than they were in the USSR.

I'm grateful I don't live in a country with socialized medicine. I have access to the best healthcare in the world by paying cash for it. All I have to do to qualify for it is earn the money to pay for it. It doesn't matter that I'm not a woman. It doesn't matter that I'm not a minority. It doesn't matter than I'm not pregnant. It doesn't matter if an insurance company labels it experimental, pre-existing, cosmetic, or nonessential. If I do the work and earn the money I qualify for the healthcare. If I don't think it's worth it then I don't buy and I don't have to pay for it, not for me and not for anyone else. That's my definition of real equality under the law. That's what I call workers' rights. If you earn it, than you get to decide how to spend it, not someone else.
So which party would you suggest I vote then?

How many people are dying from lack of medicine in your country? How many people are seriously ill from something that could have been fixed simply? It doesn't matter what one's means are, everyone has human rights and if how your country works is putting those people in that situation then it is the country's responsibility to get them out of it. A person shouldn't need to work multiple jobs to live on the breadline.

Some people are in poverty through no choice of their own. Yes there will be people that make choices that take them there but not always. You should count yourself lucky and be grateful for your fortunate situation.

And for the record, my husband has something akin to medical insurance that is part of his work and it covers us for some medical and holistic things which every UK citizen is welcome to join. We have access to private GPs 24/7 which I have only needed to use twice in 6 years. And to be honest one time, they didn't have an answer for me and I ended up going to the NHS for advice anyway. The other time was for an out of hours prescription which was fine. I had to pay more than I would have but it was needed. So there are private options in the UK. We have spire which you can just email and they will set up a consultation and quite often you can have a private consultation and then have your private results sent over to your NHS GP for further treatment if you so wish.
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Moksha »

IWMP wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:00 am
So which party would you suggest I vote for then?
Ajax would have you choose Trump and anything pre-Magna Carta.
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

IWMP wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:00 am
And for the record,
IWMP, do know you’re talking to a literal fascist? He is absolute about his beliefs and will say anything to keep his faith in authoritarianism afire. He might skim your responses, but he won’t read them. Occasionally he’ll pick a sentence out, and then strawman it. He’s a deeply frustrated man who has made a series of choices that makes him feel trapped, so he’s turned to God and blaming others in order to feel less burdened. You can keep engaging him, obviously that’s your choice, but it’d be akin to talking to Rosebud and expecting her to move on at some point.

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Re: UK General Election

Post by Chap »

ajax18 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:42 pm
Oh, by the way: I want a government that is serious in cooperating with our neighbours in Europe to resist Putin's attempts to recreate the Russian empire.
So you'd be willing to spend money on military and national defense? That doesn't seem like the platform of the last [Labour] Party government of 1997-2010 at all.
(My correction to correct name of the party to which he refers.

In the last full year of Labour government in 2009, military expenditure was 2.6% of GDP. After the Conservatives took over in 2010, it declined year on year, falling to 1.9% in 2018, since when it has risen somewhat, but still not to the level of the last Labour government. See: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS ... cations=GB.

Labour Party latest policy statement on defence:
Labour believes the first duty of any government is to keep the nation safe and protect our citizens.

But after 14 years of the Conservatives, the British Army has been cut to its smallest size since it fought Napoleon and one in five of the Royal Navy’s ships have been removed from service. Over 200 aircraft have been taken out of service in the last five years alone.

Rishi Sunak has no solutions to this Tory-made crisis, only gimmicks. Forcing young people into national service is not what our armed forces need.

With Keir Starmer, Labour is committed to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence as soon as we can, securing our country’s future, and getting the best value for money for British taxpayers. We will maintain an unshakeable commitment to NATO and our nuclear deterrent, and put a renewed focus on improving morale in our armed forces.
How the Conservatives have failed on defence
Forces recruitment targets have been missed every year, and satisfaction with service life has fallen to record lows. And our defence procurement system is condemned by the Public Accounts Committee as ‘broken and repeatedly wasting taxpayers’ money’.

This comes as war rages in Ukraine and Vladimir Putin and his autocrat allies threaten conflict around the world.

Half-baked announcements about bringing back national service cannot disguise the Tories’ record on defence.

Things cannot continue as they are. Change is needed. Keir Starmer will deliver that change.

What is Labour’s defence policy?
As the party that helped found NATO and established the UK’s nuclear deterrent, defence is in our DNA.

Labour will strengthen Britain’s defences:

Maintain an unshakeable commitment to NATO and our nuclear deterrent.
Conduct a Strategic Defence Review in our first year in government to fully understand the state of our Armed Forces, the nature of threats we face and the capabilities needed.
Improve morale by tackling the poor state of service accommodation and establish an Armed Forces Commissioner as a strong independent voice to improve service life.
Take a more strategic approach to procurement; boosting British industry, reinforcing national resilience, and strengthening NATO.
How Labour will maintain Trident and our nuclear deterrent
Labour has a ‘triple-lock’ commitment to the UK nuclear submarine programme. We are committed to maintaining our nuclear deterrent; committed to building four new nuclear submarines in Barrow-in-Furness, in Cumbria; and committed to all the future upgrades needed.

Labour’s Nuclear Deterrent Triple Lock would see:

The construction of four new nuclear submarines in Barrow-in-Furness, supporting high quality, high status apprenticeships and jobs, with the supply chain benefits being felt right across the country.
Britain maintaining its continuous at-sea deterrent, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year – securing protection for both the UK and NATO allies.
The delivery of all future upgrades needed for those submarines to patrol the waters and keep our country safe.
Strong defence requires good morale – our military deserves nothing less. That is why Labour commissioned the independent Kerslake review of military homes to help draw up plans to make them fit for heroes. We will also legislate to establish an independent Armed Forces Commissioner, to champion the interests of our service personnel.

In a dangerous world, we need the best civilian and military minds to help make strategic decisions. So, we will establish a Military Strategic Headquarters during week one of a Labour government. It will provide strategic direction and make decisions about the balance of investment between the services and military capabilities. We will also ensure stability by appointing our service chiefs for four years rather than two.
Good enough for you, Ajax? Or do you think the Conservatives would be better?
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huckelberry
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Re: UK General Election

Post by huckelberry »

ajax18 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:30 pm
I'm grateful I don't live in a country with socialized medicine. I have access to the best healthcare in the world by paying cash for it. All I have to do to qualify for it is earn the money to pay for it. It doesn't matter that I'm not a woman. It doesn't matter that I'm not a minority. It doesn't matter that I'm not pregnant. It doesn't matter if an insurance company labels it experimental, pre-existing, cosmetic, or nonessential. If I do the work and earn the money I qualify for the healthcare. If I don't think it's worth it then I don't buy and I don't have to pay for it, not for me and not for anyone else. That's my definition of real equality under the law. That's what I call workers' rights. If you earn it, than you get to decide how to spend it, not someone else.
Ajax, I suppose it is a good thing that your health care needs are affordable. Doctor visit to say you are ok or perhaps adjust blood pressure medication is affordable for working people. Have you considered the costs that can be incurred with serious injury or illness? What would a couple of months in the hospital cost you? Well, death remains an affordable health treatement I suppose.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: UK General Election

Post by Doctor Steuss »

ajax18 wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:30 pm
I'm grateful I don't live in a country with socialized medicine. I have access to the best healthcare in the world by paying cash for it.
If only there were a way to measure whether the US has the best healthcare in the world. One would certainly expect it to, given that we pay more per capita (by far) than any other westernized country.

If only there were a way to see how we compare with things like maternal mortality, medical errors, stroke survival post hospitalization, overall mortality rate, cancer survival after 5 years, etc. If only...

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/cha ... countries/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... healthcare

Incidentally, guess where the US ranks in life expectancy (a good measure of healthcare quality, and health education)? I'll give you a hint, it's not even in the top 50.
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IWMP
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Re: UK General Election

Post by IWMP »

Moksha wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:08 am
IWMP wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 6:00 am
So which party would you suggest I vote for then?
Ajax would have you choose Trump and anything pre-Magna Carta.
Trump can't come be our Prime Minister lol
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