Does character still matter in politics?

[ceeboo]

rather than just trying to shame Kish for having asked the question.

Kish,

I recognize that you did not write this, but I wanted to respond to you.

I never intended to shame you on the board - I wouldn't do that - I was simply challenging you, someone I consider a friend, because where I come from the role of a friend encompasses many layers of expression. Two of these layers are expressed by loving and caring.

Simply put, I challenged you in this thread because of my love for you and my care for you - Among other things, that's what true friends do in my universe. Shaming you was never on my radar.

[Doctor Steuss]

Romney and McCain both lost and Trump won. Being too good to fight, milquetoast, and further to the left on policy equals loser.

In other words, you can't be a decent human being, and you need to be an extremist, in order to win as a Republican politician?

Yikes.

[Kishkumen]

Kish,

I recognize that you did not write this, but I wanted to respond to you.

I never intended to shame you on the board - I wouldn't do that - I was simply challenging you, someone I consider a friend, because where I come from the role of a friend encompasses many layers of expression. Two of these layers are expressed by loving and caring.

Simply put, I challenged you in this thread because of my love for you and my care for you - Among other things, that's what true friends do in my universe. Shaming you was never on my radar.

No worries, ceeboo. I understand your positive intentions. I am not upset about it. I don’t think it was a good subject line. Certainly not now.

[ceeboo]

Does character still matter in politics?

Character, at the roots, are the attributes that make up an individual. The character of any given individual can and does run along a very wide spectrum. While not being the best descriptor, they can range from very good character to very poor character. In addition, depending on what the looker values most, people can and do place the same person at different points along this wide spectrum. The reasons we can place the same person at different points along this wide spectrum is complex because humans are very complex creatures - One reason of many, is that we are all impacted by our own personal bias, our own narrow perspectives, and our own ideological hypocrisy.

Politics - or politicians to be more precise, are severely lacking in the personal character department (I am speaking generally, there are always exceptions). This is why, in my opinion, the great majority of people that would be fantastic public servants/leaders (I believe there are thousands and thousands of these people in this country) wouldn't even consider getting involved in this disgusting arena - a.k.a. American politics.

While I do believe that character should matter, by and large, I don't believe that it does, at least not nearly as much as many other things - and I believe it's becoming less important as time passes - I would say that this is true even when the call to good character trumpet is blown.

The recent debate was a fairly decent example of what I am talking about. To take a moment and consider the reality that these two people are our Presidential choices blows the mind. It blows the mind.

So, what do I/we do? My guess is that we cast our vote based on who we believe will stand for what we value most. We choose the candidate that we believe will make policies and govern in a way that reflects what we believe is important. We choose the candidate that we believe will be best for our country. We don't get to choose our own vision of eutopia - eutopia, whatever that means to each of us, is not on the ballot. We are all in the same circumstance and we must make a choice based on the only options that exist.

Just mt take.

Kish - I love the change in the thread title.

[Res Ipsa]

Romney and McCain both lost and Trump won. Being too good to fight, milquetoast, and further to the left on policy equals loser.

In other words, you can't be a decent human being, and you need to be an extremist, in order to win as a Republican politician?

Yikes.

Because making fun of making a dog ride on the top of a car is exactly the same thing as "lock her up" or threatening the leader of an ally to gain an election advantage.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I wonder if Ceeboo takes a moment to talk to people like this:



and to chastise them for their divisiveness? Or is it just this board that gets his condemnation?

- Doc

[Kishkumen]

Does character still matter in politics?

Character, at the roots, are the attributes that make up an individual. The character of any given individual can and does run along a very wide spectrum. While not being the best descriptor, they can range from very good character to very poor character. In addition, depending on what the looker values most, people can and do place the same person at different points along this wide spectrum. The reasons we can place the same person at different points along this wide spectrum is complex because humans are very complex creatures - One reason of many, is that we are all impacted by our own personal bias, our own narrow perspectives, and our own ideological hypocrisy.

Politics - or politicians to be more precise, are severely lacking in the personal character department (I am speaking generally, there are always exceptions). This is why, in my opinion, the great majority of people that would be fantastic public servants/leaders (I believe there are thousands and thousands of these people in this country) wouldn't even consider getting involved in this disgusting arena - a.k.a. American politics.

While I do believe that character should matter, by and large, I don't believe that it does, at least not nearly as much as many other things - and I believe it's becoming less important as time passes - I would say that this is true even when the call to good character trumpet is blown.

The recent debate was a fairly decent example of what I am talking about. To take a moment and consider the reality that these two people are our Presidential choices blows the mind. It blows the mind.

So, what do I/we do? My guess is that we cast our vote based on who we believe will stand for what we value most. We choose the candidate that we believe will make policies and govern in a way that reflects what we believe is important. We choose the candidate that we believe will be best for our country. We don't get to choose our own vision of eutopia - eutopia, whatever that means to each of us, is not on the ballot. We are all in the same circumstance and we must make a choice based on the only options that exist.

Just mt take.

Kish - I love the change in the thread title.

Out of curiosity, what about Joe Biden’s character blows your mind? Or is it his age that blows your mind? Mind you, I was never a big fan of Joe. He tells some, er, creative and gratuitous whoppers. I thought his behavior toward Anita Hill in the Thomas hearing was pretty gag worthy. That said, I don’t think anything except his age is really concerning. He is, in many ways, within the range of normal for an American politician. He is no Bob Menendez, though the GOP keeps pretending he is. Menendez is a good example of a Democrat who should be thrown out of office, just so you know that I, an Independent, can be equally against other bad characters in politics.

I guess I want character to matter more. In that way I align with Mitt Romney. I thought Bill Clinton was a sleeze-ball who dishonored the presidency with his bad behavior. Post-presidency he has a real patchy record too. I think the best example of an upright president is Jimmy Carter. His life is a testament to the value of good character. He is about the closest thing we have to a saintly president, especially after his presidency.

[Philo Sofee]

And yet here our friend ceeboo is telling me my thread is the problem.

I did not tell you that your thread is the problem. Here is what I said.

Thread titles like yours, play a huge role in what is damaging America. Devaluing relationships amongst the citizens in America and creating wider division in an already huge divide.

Thread titles like yours that take an extremely large group of very diverse, individual, and complex human beings and cement all of them with a negative label absolutely plays a huge role in damaging America, devaluing relationships, and creates wider division in an already huge divide.

But my thread is the problem.

Your thread title contributes to the problem - No doubt about it.

FREE SPEECH damages America? What, are you a Trump boot licker?! That's what Trump wants, to eliminate ALL speech except those who agree with him. Are you for that?

[Res Ipsa]

I did not tell you that your thread is the problem. Here is what I said.

Thread titles like yours, play a huge role in what is damaging America. Devaluing relationships amongst the citizens in America and creating wider division in an already huge divide.

Thread titles like yours that take an extremely large group of very diverse, individual, and complex human beings and cement all of them with a negative label absolutely plays a huge role in damaging America, devaluing relationships, and creates wider division in an already huge divide.


Your thread title contributes to the problem - No doubt about it.

FREE SPEECH damages America? What, are you a Trump boot licker?! That's what Trump wants, to eliminate ALL speech except those who agree with him. Are you for that?

Free speech and damaging speech are not mutually exclusive categories.

[Kishkumen]

There is wisdom in Biden’s reaction to the dangerous Supreme Court ruling:

"The presidency is the most powerful office in the world. It’s an office that not only tests your judgment; perhaps even more importantly, it’s an office that can test your character. Because you not only face moments where you need the courage to exercise the full power of the presidency," Biden said. "You also face moments where you need the wisdom to respect the limits of the power of the office of the presidency."

Trump failed such tests in his last term. He was barely held in check by people who did not want to implicate themselves in his criminality. Such people will not be welcome in the next Trump administration. He will only want the people who will green-light his criminality, and Supreme Court just handed him a lot of space to succeed in his criminal aims.