Does character still matter in politics?

[ceeboo]

Out of curiosity, what about Joe Biden’s character blows your mind? Or is it his age that blows your mind? Mind you, I was never a big fan of Joe. He tells some, er, creative and gratuitous whoppers. I thought his behavior toward Anita Hill in the Thomas hearing was pretty gag worthy. That said, I don’t think anything except his age is really concerning. He is, in many ways, within the range of normal for an American politician. He is no Bob Menendez, though the GOP keeps pretending he is. Menendez is a good example of a Democrat who should be thrown out of office, just so you know that I, an Independent, can be equally against other bad characters in politics.

First, I need to say this: I have a ton of empathy and compassion for President Biden. He has experienced unthinkable personal tragedy - the kind I will never be able to fully appreciate/understand. Unthinkable.

Having said that, I do not believe President Biden is a man of good character (I am using my personal definition and other people will need to come to their own conclusions based on whatever they use as a measuring stick) - I would offer the same response for the great majority of politicians on both sides (This certainly includes President Trump) - especially those who have been corrupted by decades in DC, living under the required party loyalty at all costs schtick and desperate desire for more power that seems to grow with all of them the longer they hold powerful positions.

I guess I want character to matter more.

I can't imagine a scenario where most Americans wouldn't share your desire. Unfortunately, this simply isn't the reality we live in, and I would suggest that character is becoming less and less important as time passes. So, most people cast their ballot based on which politically driven narrative they have been ingesting and/or what is important to them and/or what values matter most to them and/or which candidate aligns most closely with their personal ideology. Whether that's abortion, or the border, or taxes, or climate, or threats to democracy, or Jan 6th, or the BLM riots, or smaller government, or rights of the marginalized, or the 2nd amendment, or censorship, or equal rule of law, or etc. My point is that people vote based on a variety of reasons and I believe they ought to be able to do so without needing to explain their vote to the masses.

[ceeboo]

I did not tell you that your thread is the problem. Here is what I said.

Thread titles like yours, play a huge role in what is damaging America. Devaluing relationships amongst the citizens in America and creating wider division in an already huge divide.

Thread titles like yours that take an extremely large group of very diverse, individual, and complex human beings and cement all of them with a negative label absolutely plays a huge role in damaging America, devaluing relationships, and creates wider division in an already huge divide.


Your thread title contributes to the problem - No doubt about it.

FREE SPEECH damages America?

Yep - I want to end all FREE SPEECH!

What, are you a Trump boot licker?

Yes! I have his name tattooed to my chest, right over my heart.

That's what Trump wants, to eliminate ALL speech except those who agree with him. Are you for that?

Yes, I am for that.

[Kishkumen]

Having said that, I do not believe President Biden is a man of good character (I am using my personal definition and other people will need to come to their own conclusions based on whatever they use as a measuring stick) - I would offer the same response for the great majority of politicians on both sides (This certainly includes President Trump) - especially those who have been corrupted by decades in DC, living under the required party loyalty at all costs schtick and desperate desire for more power that seems to grow with all of them the longer they hold powerful positions.

That looks more like general cynicism about politics than a specific judgment of Biden’s character. I understand where that’s coming from, but it looks to me like a kind of evasion of responsibility to judge relative character. I do think it matters whether a politician is a Menendez vs. a Carter. Give me a Carter any day over a Menendez. Give me a Reagan any day over a Trump. As a Classically educated person, I view it to be part of our civic duty to judge character and try to pick politicians of relatively better character when given a choice. Greeks and Romans delineated pretty well over the centuries what the tyrannical personality is, and DJT fits it to a tee. He does so much more than any presidential candidate or president of recent memory.

Unfortunately, this simply isn't the reality we live in, and I would suggest that character is becoming less and less important as time passes.

It needs to matter to us now, or we will surrender to tyranny.

[ceeboo]

Having said that, I do not believe President Biden is a man of good character (I am using my personal definition and other people will need to come to their own conclusions based on whatever they use as a measuring stick) - I would offer the same response for the great majority of politicians on both sides (This certainly includes President Trump) - especially those who have been corrupted by decades in DC, living under the required party loyalty at all costs schtick and desperate desire for more power that seems to grow with all of them the longer they hold powerful positions.

That looks more like general cynicism about politics than a specific judgment of Biden’s character. I understand where that’s coming from, but it looks to me like a kind of evasion of responsibility to judge relative character.

More than fair. I completely understand where you are coming. I am not willing to say more about my opinion regarding Biden's character and I fully admit that it was very limited and evasive.

Unfortunately, this simply isn't the reality we live in, and I would suggest that character is becoming less and less important as time passes.

It needs to matter to us now, or we will surrender to tyranny.

I keep hearing this (or similar things) - I just don't buy the narrative/narratives.

[Moksha]

Trump idealogues say the darndest things.

[Kishkumen]

I keep hearing this (or similar things) - I just don't buy the narrative/narratives.

What does it mean to you when Trump says he will be a dictator on day one, interpreted as generously as you like. Do you think it is appropriate for a US presidential candidate to openly talk about exercising any form of dictatorship?

If it takes character to exercise restraint in the office of the presidency, what does one make of the character of someone who seeks to be unrestrained in the presidency?

[ceeboo]

I keep hearing this (or similar things) - I just don't buy the narrative/narratives.

What does it mean to you when Trump says he will be a dictator on day one

What does it mean to me? It means that you are most likely parroting the Biden campaign's out-of-context talking point about a lengthy Hannity interview with Trump. Have you seen the full interview and/or read the word-for-word transcript?

[Kishkumen]

What does it mean to me? It means that you are most likely parroting the Biden campaign's out-of-context talking point about a lengthy Hannity interview with Trump. Have you seen the full interview and/or read the word-for-word transcript?

No, ceeboo, I am asking you what YOU think his statement meant. I saw the Hannity interview. Please, don’t insult me by telling me that my question comes from Biden talking points. By the way, there is also nothing inherently wrong with messaging. Every campaign and propaganda station, including the so-called “conservative” ones, has messaging. DJT said he would be a dictator “but only on day one.” My question still stands.

[ceeboo]

What does it mean to me? It means that you are most likely parroting the Biden campaign's out-of-context talking point about a lengthy Hannity interview with Trump. Have you seen the full interview and/or read the word-for-word transcript?

No, ceeboo, I am asking you what YOU think his statement meant.

I think his statement meant that he would begin his second presidency by doing two things immediately, drilling and addressing the current border crisis. I think he says things that are very inappropriate all the time. I think he tweets inappropriate things all the time. I think he overstates how great he is and how great anything is that he had his hand in, I think he has a very large ego.

I saw the Hannity interview. Please, don’t insult me by telling me that my question comes from Biden talking points

Please accept my apology - I didn't intend to insult you. You asked me what it meant to me and that was what came to my mind.

By the way, there is also nothing inherently wrong with messaging. Every campaign and propaganda station, including the so-called “conservative” ones, has messaging.

I agree and I understand that these propaganda machines are used on both sides.

DJT said he would be a dictator “but only on day one.” My question still stands.

It was inappropriate.

[Kishkumen]

OK, it is inappropriate. What about his stated objective to seek retribution against those who he felt pursued legal redress for his criminal activities? Was that appropriate?

Is it possible that, taking him at his word, these undemocratic statements should be disqualifying? As in, seeing that this was, at least until the last Supreme Court ruling, a place where the rule of law prevailed, why should we want leaders who are above the law and act as though they are above the law?