Does character still matter in politics?

[honorentheos]

In some alternate universe Trump never won the Republican nomination in 2016 because he didn't represent the conservative wing of US politics.

In some alternate universe the Republican party would have repelled Russian involvement in the election process as they still believed party politics ended at the nation's borders.

In some alternate universe the events of January 6 would have resulted in a wake up call as the Representatives and Senators who had lived through it first hand ensured the politicians who made it possible were held accountable.

In some alternate universe the electorate would maintain that there are boundaries to how far a person can push their ambition and willingness to lie and not elect said persons.

Unlike Dr Exiled, we don't live in an alternate universe.

[Moksha]

Trump recently highlighted a meme demanding that Liz Cheney face a military tribunal. How should a sensible person take these antics?

MAGAs would see this as proof that Trump is the chosen one.

[Kishkumen]

In some alternate universe Trump never won the Republican nomination in 2016 because he didn't represent the conservative wing of US politics.

In some alternate universe the Republican party would have repelled Russian involvement in the election process as they still believed party politics ended at the nation's borders.

In some alternate universe the events of January 6 would have resulted in a wake up call as the Representatives and Senators who had lived through it first hand ensured the politicians who made it possible were held accountable.

In some alternate universe the electorate would maintain that there are boundaries to how far a person can push their ambition and willingness to lie and not elect said persons.

Unlike Dr Exiled, we don't live in an alternate universe.

I believe that there is a real “ends justify the means” approach to radical right-wing politics in our country. It is OK to vote for Trump because gender politics, BLM “riots,” isolationism (America first), immigration crisis (that Republicans actually refused to do anything about to please Herr Dumpf), etc. Add to that the fact that the right-wing media is habitually exaggerating how bad crime is (violent crime statistics show a decrease), and blows the “scary” gender stuff out of proportion.

In other words, a well-oiled propaganda machine is scaring people to vote for unqualified, incompetent, unscrupulous people, but the excuse seems to be, even when it is not openly stated, “we have to vote for these guys, even if we don’t like their crude behavior, because we need to save the country from . . .” X catastrophe that does not exist or is not nearly as bad as they claim, or is actively being prolonged by the radical right for political advantage.

And, honestly, the Democrats should have reversed
their abandonment of labor, and should have focused on the stagnation of middle class wages a lot sooner. I blame Democrats partly for driving blue collar folk to Trump. Had Bernie been nominated for 2016—and believe me, I understand the practical reasons why he was not—we might not be here. Bernie believed that focusing on the class war the wealthy fight against the poor was the way to stave off disaster. Instead, Democrats got mired in identity politics—a total loser of a an issue that only made America more divided.

Democrats handed the radical right a bogeyman to use to remain somehow relevant when they should have been driven into the wilderness by their incompetence and criminality.

[Res Ipsa]

In some alternate universe Trump never won the Republican nomination in 2016 because he didn't represent the conservative wing of US politics.

In some alternate universe the Republican party would have repelled Russian involvement in the election process as they still believed party politics ended at the nation's borders.

In some alternate universe the events of January 6 would have resulted in a wake up call as the Representatives and Senators who had lived through it first hand ensured the politicians who made it possible were held accountable.

In some alternate universe the electorate would maintain that there are boundaries to how far a person can push their ambition and willingness to lie and not elect said persons.

Unlike Dr Exiled, we don't live in an alternate universe.

I believe that there is a real “ends justify the means” approach to radical right-wing politics in our country. It is OK to vote for Trump because gender politics, BLM “riots,” isolationism (America first), immigration crisis (that Republicans actually refused to do anything about to please Herr Dumpf), etc. Add to that the fact that the right-wing media is habitually exaggerating how bad crime is (violent crime statistics show a decrease), and blows the “scary” gender stuff out of proportion.

In other words, a well-oiled propaganda machine is scaring people to vote for unqualified, incompetent, unscrupulous people, but the excuse seems to be, even when it is not openly stated, “we have to vote for these guys, even if we don’t like their crude behavior, because we need to save the country from . . .” X catastrophe that does not exist or is not nearly as bad as they claim, or is actively being prolonged by the radical right for political advantage.

And, honestly, the Democrats should have reversed
their abandonment of labor, and should have focused on the stagnation of middle class wages a lot sooner. I blame Democrats partly for driving blue collar folk to Trump. Had Bernie been nominated for 2016—and believe me, I understand the practical reasons why he was not—we might not be here. Bernie believed that focusing on the class war the wealthy fight against the poor was the way to stave off disaster. Instead, Democrats got mired in identity politics—a total loser of a an issue that only made America more divided.

Democrats handed the radical right a bogeyman to use to remain somehow relevant when they should have been driven into the wilderness by their incompetence and criminality.

I think it's fair to say that that the radical right will make a bogeyman out of anything even moderate democrats propose, including ideas initially pushed by Republicans.

[Kishkumen]

I think it's fair to say that that the radical right will make a bogeyman out of anything even moderate democrats propose, including ideas initially pushed by Republicans.

I think it is also fair to say that activists on both sides drive the discourse to extremes that a lot of people are not ready to entertain.

[Morley]

Let me make it simple: Does cementing a negative label upon millions of people, like racist, damaging to America and/or relationships amongst Americans? Is it divisive?

I’d suggest that not confronting and calling out behaviors like racism is even more damaging, ceeboo.



Edit:

Question for you: Was it wrong, the middle of the last century, to call out millions of Americans on the fact that they wanted to impinge on the right to vote?

[Dr Exiled]

Naw. I'm just trying to point out that perhaps you are overreacting to Trump and the potentials the media hypes. I think this is why you use the illogical "everyone knows" reasoning when trying to justify your unreasonable fears of what could happen in a new Trump administration. You realize that there still is a Constitution, and Congress, and the Court that will act as a check on whatever you imagine Trump might do. Sure, your torch may have been put out for the moment. Maybe take a break from commenting for a minute? The Court didn't do like you wanted, like all your friends wanted. Deal with it.

Exiled, sorry, but you’ve become kind of a tool. Our fears are not unreasonable. Radical right wing judges may have just succeeded in keeping Trump safe from the consequences of his criminal behavior. There is nothing unreasonable in worrying that our Republic is in deep trouble. Congress has been dysfunctional for quite a while. The Supreme Court is dominated by radical right wing justices.

If you want to take a break from being an ass, feel free to start any time.

I don't think your fears are reasonable because we saw what a Trump administration was and can extrapolate what a second administration would be. There is no evidence other than hyperbole and unsubstantiated conjecture as to the parade of horribles you fear. I think it comes from Trump's war stance. He doesn't want war and the uniparty wants it because their campaign contributors on Wall Street make a lot of money doing it and Aipac wants to resurrect what supposed King David supposedly controlled, and just think of all those juicy assets Russia has for our billionaires to exploit, like they were doing in the 90's ...

Further, remember how the supposed radical justices abandoned their supposed supreme leader when he was complaining about the 2020 election. Maybe they aren't so much in the wannabe supreme leader's pocket? Sure they gave immunity to presidents and that includes the devil president we had to endure, but believe it or not, the SC looks thirty or so years ahead with their decisions and looks to where we've been and then decides the cases they take. We cannot have someone like Trump looking to put Biden or Obama in jeopardy for actions they took while in office.

[Gadianton]

There is no evidence other than hyperbole and unsubstantiated conjecture as to the parade of horribles you fear. I think it comes from Trump's war stance. He doesn't want war and the uniparty wants it because their campaign contributors on Wall Street

No, Trump going all in abusing every option and breaking any law to repay a chance at an election steal. That's the number 1 thing people are worried about. Trump's supposed anti-war stance (was he anti-war when he suggested invading Mexico?) is also a problem, but it's not entirely because he's anti-war. You have to start with his reasoning for being anti-war. For instance, the fact he wants NATO to up their game is a justifiable concern and a legit reason to be anti-war. The fact that he didn't want to help Ukraine because Zelensky refused to fabricate evidence against the Bidens is not a legitimate reason to be anti-war. The fact his self-esteem is so low that he doesn't want to lose Putin's praise is not a legitimate reason to be anti-war. Even worse, the fact that his Christian nationalist base have embraced Putin as a patriarchal anti-woke folk hero is not a good reason to be anti-war.

[Kishkumen]

I don't think your fears are reasonable because we saw what a Trump administration was and can extrapolate what a second administration would be. There is no evidence other than hyperbole and unsubstantiated conjecture as to the parade of horribles you fear. I think it comes from Trump's war stance. He doesn't want war and the uniparty wants it because their campaign contributors on Wall Street make a lot of money doing it and Aipac wants to resurrect what supposed King David supposedly controlled, and just think of all those juicy assets Russia has for our billionaires to exploit, like they were doing in the 90's ...

Further, remember how the supposed radical justices abandoned their supposed supreme leader when he was complaining about the 2020 election. Maybe they aren't so much in the wannabe supreme leader's pocket? Sure they gave immunity to presidents and that includes the devil president we had to endure, but believe it or not, the SC looks thirty or so years ahead with their decisions and looks to where we've been and then decides the cases they take. We cannot have someone like Trump looking to put Biden or Obama in jeopardy for actions they took while in office.

I think you are incredibly naïve, and it doesn't seem to matter to you what others say, because you proceed to ignore it. You just repeat the same nonsense about how the last Trump administration wasn't so bad, etc.

Listen, on the SC thing, please don't be so dumb. The fact of the matter is that presidential immunity was never a problem until our SC let Trump make it an issue. The Constitution provides the president no immunity from criminal prosecution. The SC snapped to to make sure Trump was on the ballot when states acted on the plain language of the Constitution to remove him. They essentially stitched together threads of crap to make up an immunity that does not exist, and they took their sweet time doing it, because they wanted to make sure, once again, that Trump was able to run.

It is not like the system had nothing to stop Trump. It is rather the case that the SC worked it out so that Trump would not be hindered by those protections. Sure they weren't bleeding obvious about it, but the results are clear. They made sure he could be on the ballot right away. They made sure, by taking their sweet time and deciding they could not judge what his official acts necessarily are, that he could not be tried for his criminal acts before the election.

It is really remarkable to me how foolish and easily bamboozled some people are.

[Kishkumen]

There is no evidence other than hyperbole and unsubstantiated conjecture as to the parade of horribles you fear. I think it comes from Trump's war stance. He doesn't want war and the uniparty wants it because their campaign contributors on Wall Street

No, Trump going all in abusing every option and breaking any law to repay a chance at an election steal. That's the number 1 thing people are worried about. Trump's supposed anti-war stance (was he anti-war when he suggested invading Mexico?) is also a problem, but it's not entirely because he's anti-war. You have to start with his reasoning for being anti-war. For instance, the fact he wants NATO to up their game is a justifiable concern and a legit reason to be anti-war. The fact that he didn't want to help Ukraine because Zelensky refused to fabricate evidence against the Bidens is not a legitimate reason to be anti-war. The fact his self-esteem is so low that he doesn't want to lose Putin's praise is not a legitimate reason to be anti-war. Even worse, the fact that his Christian nationalist base have embraced Putin as a patriarchal anti-woke folk hero is not a good reason to be anti-war.

Yes, Trump is a dangerously corrupt idiot who only cares about his own personal image, benefit, and interest. Anyone who doesn't have their head buried in conspiracy thinking and has paid the least bit of attention knows that he is dangerous precisely because he has no solid reasoning, knowledge, sanity, or morality. But, for Exiled and his red-pill, Q-adjacent, edgy takes on the world, it is the "uniparty" shaking in their boots that they will lose control of Empire America that is responsible for Trump-hate.

In truth, it is anyone who has the capacity to reason and hasn't had their brains cooked by social media algorithms that can see Trump is a completely unqualified, criminal fool who should never have been within a country mile of public office in the first place. It is absolute madness that he is on the verge of winning the presidency yet again, after trying to overturn a free and fair election. We live in mad times.