A View From the Left

[Res Ipsa]

I’ve been unapologetically politically left of center for over 40 years. There’s no magic as to why. The most important lesson I learned in college is the sheer number of assumptions that market theory is based on and how far from reality those assumptions are. I had never heard of market failure and externalities when I started, but understood them very well.

To me, that gave government an important role in society: stepping in where externalities and other cases where markets do not perform as advertised. If our society chooses an economic system that necessarily generates winners and losers, then society has a moral obligation to make sure the losers don’t get crushed by a market that cares not one bit whether the losers suffer and die.

That’s my political philosophy, as they say, in a nutshell. And for that I’ve been demonized, dehumanized, and threatened by a political movement led by people who have incited hatred by my fellow Americans against other of my fellow Americans, motivated by greed and power.

I got my first hint at what was going on in a conversation with my very LDS, very conservative brother in law. He served his mission in Chile and was singing the praises of Pinochet. He segued into asking me how I could possibly be a liberal. I asked him what he thought liberals believed. The answer resembled a complete caricature of what liberals believe and stand for. It was a shock.

I responded by telling him what I believed as a liberal and that, in my experience, my views were pretty typical of liberals. He seemed very surprised. Now, he and I liked each other very much, and that conversation didn’t change that. He was a loving, caring individual and a wonderful husband to my sister. He and I just did what was common in those days — we recognized the differences in our politics and just didn’t talk about it.

But I wondered: How did he get a picture of who liberals were what they believed that was so off the mark?

The answer wasn’t hard. He, and most of the folks he associated with, were big fans of the Rush Limbaugh show. I tuned in and discovered that every false or exaggerated stereotype that my brother in law had mentioned was front and center in the show.

I figured that this was a phase that would pass like most do. But over time, keeping an eye on right wing radio, I saw the demonization of liberals and the incitement of fear and anger ratchet up and up and up. Some of the stuff that was said became so over the top that I could not believe that anyone would take it seriously.

But that feeling changed with the election of Obama. From my perspective, the right lost its collective mind. The birthers — one Donald Trump among them — was one of the most shameful political movements I’ve witnessed.

And that’s when I remembered something I never should have forgotten: propaganda works. Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and Republican politicians had discovered just how well it works.

With the candidacy of Donald Trump, the wheels came completely off. Opinion leaders, media outlets, and politicians on the right learned that they could tell outright lies with impunity because people who have been fed a steady diet of fear, anger and grievance reach a point where the actual facts don’t matter.

Even worse, those same leaders began to employ a tactic that allowed them to justify never ending escalation. They would accuse the left of doing something that the right was already doing, and then using that as a justification for escalating even more. That’s a self perpetuating escalation that leads to Rwanda — where hate radio drove ordinary people to pick up machetes and slaughter their neighbors — men, women, and children. People who are hopped up on anger, fear and resentment don’t act rationally.

Have all you folks on the right forgotten this recent set of events? MAGA representatives and Fox News accused the President of ordering the FBI to assassinate Trump during the search of Mar al Lago. That was not just a lie — it was a 100% malicious lie. It was the equivalent of throwing gasoline on an out of control fire.

What were the initial reactions by opinion leaders after the assassination attempt? Democratic leaders, including the President, threw water on the fire. They all condemned the shooting and all political violence. The Biden campaign went dark to let things cool off.

The first reactions from the other side threw gasoline on the fire. J.D. Vance, a guy who wants to be Vice President of the United States, accused Biden of causing the shooting. Yet, never once has Vance ever suggested that Trump and R politicians should tone down their rhetoric, which has explicitly called for violence against their political enemies.

To keep informed on what the left is up to, I read a few sites, including Daily Kos. The site has two rules that the membership and the site owners enforce: no suggestion or encouragement of violence and no promotion of conspiracy theories. Last night, the few folks who tried to push a false flag narrative got hide rated into oblivion. The same with any suggestion of employing violence. Contrast that with the toxic stew of conspiracy theories and incitement of violence you find on any right wing site.

Now, to avoid any misunderstanding, I’m not saying that that aren’t folks on the left who engage in some of the same behavior. But those on the right who are meming one sentence uttered by the President while giving a free pass to the firehouse of violent rhetoric coming from their own side — including one Donald J. Trump — come off as 100% phony.

I think I have a smidgen off street creed in that department. I’ve taken a fair amount of crap for opposing the demonization of others by people who are on my side of the political divide. I’ve tried to push back against over the top reactions to Court decisions. I’m not claiming sainthood, but I think I’ve done my bit to try and push my “side” away from the edge of the cliff that we are teetering on.

The problem with inciting fear, anger, and resentment in a population is that you never can anticipate the results. A mob is an uncontrollable monster that often ends up eating its own. Inciting fear, anger and resentment is the authoritarian playbook — it’s how people who value their freedom end up handing it over lock, stock and barrel to dictators and tyrants. Neither Putin’s Russia nor Orban’s Hungary are what the founders were aiming at. Not even close.

Four years ago, I took a break from here because the political rancor had become personally intolerable. I might need to do that again.

[Morley]

We would be poorer without you. I would especially.

[huckelberry]

Res Ipsa, soldier on the long march is worth it. Perhaps you can sometimes look past the hostility dimensions.
I hope you will.

[Res Ipsa]

Thank you both for your kindness.

[hauslern]

IT WASN’T A DEMOCRAT.
IT WASN’T A ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT.
IT WASN’T AN LGBT PERSON.
IT WASN’T AN AFRICAN AMERICAN.
IT WASN’T ANYONE HE SAID IS POISONING THE BLOOD OF AMERICA.
HE WAS WHITE, YOUNG, AND A REGISTERED REPUBLICAN.

[Gunnar]

Add me to the list of those who would be very sorry if you left us! You are one of the sanest people I have ever known!

[Dwight]

Thank you for sharing. I followed something similar. I grew up default Republican in Sandy, UT. After my mission and being in people's homes who were government, military, and on welfare I got to see past some of the labels I grew up with. The military wasn't just for people who couldn't get into college, government employees are generally people who like most people with their jobs, they want to do a good job and feel pride in their work. It wasn't the only thing, but also at university I took an intro to microeconomics and then intro to macroeconomics and those both made it very clear how capitalism could actually be better enabled by government, and that certain things government inherently works better at. I may come off fairly liberal now, but I do consider myself independent and vote for the person I think will do the best job.

While I am intolerant of the intolerant, it can be easy to demonize and lose nuance when trying to get to the point and with online stuff.

[Kishkumen]

Have all you folks on the right forgotten this recent set of events? MAGA representatives and Fox News accused the President of ordering the FBI to assassinate Trump during the search of Mar al Lago. That was not just a lie — it was a 100% malicious lie. It was the equivalent of throwing gasoline on an out of control fire.

What were the initial reactions by opinion leaders after the assassination attempt? Democratic leaders, including the President, threw water on the fire. They all condemned the shooting and all political violence. The Biden campaign went dark to let things cool off.

The first reactions from the other side threw gasoline on the fire. J.D. Vance, a guy who wants to be Vice President of the United States, accused Biden of causing the shooting. Yet, never once has Vance ever suggested that Trump and R politicians should tone down their rhetoric, which has explicitly called for violence against their political enemies.

To keep informed on what the left is up to, I read a few sites, including Daily Kos. The site has two rules that the membership and the site owners enforce: no suggestion or encouragement of violence and no promotion of conspiracy theories. Last night, the few folks who tried to push a false flag narrative got hide rated into oblivion. The same with any suggestion of employing violence. Contrast that with the toxic stew of conspiracy theories and incitement of violence you find on any right wing site.

Now, to avoid any misunderstanding, I’m not saying that that aren’t folks on the left who engage in some of the same behavior. But those on the right who are meming one sentence uttered by the President while giving a free pass to the firehouse of violent rhetoric coming from their own side — including one Donald J. Trump — come off as 100% phony.

I think I have a smidgen off street creed in that department. I’ve taken a fair amount of crap for opposing the demonization of others by people who are on my side of the political divide. I’ve tried to push back against over the top reactions to Court decisions. I’m not claiming sainthood, but I think I’ve done my bit to try and push my “side” away from the edge of the cliff that we are teetering on.

The problem with inciting fear, anger, and resentment in a population is that you never can anticipate the results. A mob is an uncontrollable monster that often ends up eating its own. Inciting fear, anger and resentment is the authoritarian playbook — it’s how people who value their freedom end up handing it over lock, stock and barrel to dictators and tyrants. Neither Putin’s Russia nor Orban’s Hungary are what the founders were aiming at. Not even close.

Four years ago, I took a break from here because the political rancor had become personally intolerable. I might need to do that again.

I am at wits end with this problem. It is like Mopologetics but much, much worse. I think it is because political parties are identities, and the invitation to people to face something rotten in their own house is met with denial and anger. I am not a registered Democrat. More than that, I really don't know how to classify myself politically any longer. But I do know this about myself: in my view, the facts show that the GOP is dead, having been replaced by Trumpism operating in the shell that was the Republican Party, and that Party of Trump has completely gone off the rails. The whole thing is depressing beyond words, and extremely frightening.

I just got back from visiting my dad, and he claims not to like Trump, and yet he gets very angry if I get too pointed in my criticism of 45. My dad has a PhD in Physics and considers himself to be a very rational person, but it is obvious to me that he really doesn't like liberalism and sees it as a destructive force in our country. Whenever I visit him, at least once during the visit the temperature will get pretty warm in the conversation, to the point that it worries me. In essence, there is no way I can be perfectly frank about my thoughts on Trump, unless I want to have a very heated argument that he will end by getting extremely angry.

Right now, Republican politicians are falsely blaming Joe Biden and the Democratic Party for the assassination attempt, and yet there is insufficient evidence to show what actually motivated the shooter. Think about it: they are willing to lie to use this extremely volatile and provocative situation for political gain. I just don't think they have any brakes anymore. I find what they are doing completely disgusting. Absolutely reprehensible. I should hope that everyone of good conscience and a modicum of wisdom could see the same. But there are many people out there that just don't.

I agree with you that this is a propaganda problem. I agree with you that it started with Limbaugh. Limbaugh taught self-identifying conservatives to hate "liberals." I think everyone outside of the Trump movement is justified in worrying about the possibility that someday their neighbors will come for them and will feel perfectly justified in doing so. Why? Because of the propaganda, and the irresponsible actions of their leaders, who, instead of putting a lid on emotionally charged situations, shamelessly use them for political advantage. This attempt on Trump is more of the same, and the stakes are even higher right now. Higher perhaps than they have ever been, excepting January 6.

They refuse to believe that the armed people attacking the police on that day were violent insurrectionists. They refuse to believe that Project 2025 is a threat to our Republic. They refuse to believe that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. Day in and day out, we see it right here on this board. I am heartsick with how this is going. And really freaked out. If I don't go online or look at the news, then I can get some rest from my cares. I can smile and wave at my neighbors, who probably vote Republican but I don't want to know, and not everything seems so dark.

[yellowstone123]

"firehouse rhetoric" comes from both side's extremes that are creating paranoia. It does concern me that both sides point to each other not seeing their own part in the chaos. How many times have we been told that Trump will bring in a Hitler-level dictatorship. It all over this board. Donald Trump and Hitler are not even in the same universe. Even Sam Harris has said that he generally feels sorry for those who have fallen for his - whatever type charisma he reportedly has - but Donald Trump is nothing like Hitler; Harris's concern was the same process that brought Donald Trump in could actually bring a Hitler-level threat. Then you have publications, main stream periodicals that are putting Trump's face with a Hitler mustache. Lots of them during the last six months, some showing an obese Trump in an Uncle Sam costume goose stepping. YOU HAVE BIDEN OVER AND OVER SAYING HE IS A THREAT AND MUST BE STOPPED. CNN and MSNBC putting on guest that says Trump must be eliminated in many disgusting ways. So then you have a crazy little zoomer who watches this over and over and over and decides to action. As the actor in Casablanca said, I'm shocked, shocked that there is gambling in this place as another actor walks up and says, "sir, your earnings' in which he takes the money, puts it in his pocket and leaves.

[Kishkumen]

"firehouse rhetoric" comes from both side's extremes that are creating paranoia. It does concern me that both sides point to each other not seeing their own part in the chaos. How many times have we been told that Trump will bring in a Hitler-level dictatorship. It all over this board. Donald Trump and Hitler are not even in the same universe. Even Sam Harris has said that he generally feels sorry for those who have fallen for his - whatever type charisma he reportedly has - but Donald Trump is nothing like Hitler; Harris's concern was the same process that brought Donald Trump in could actually bring a Hitler-level threat. Then you have publications, main stream periodicals that are putting Trump's face with a Hitler mustache. Lots of them during the last six months, some showing an obese Trump in an Uncle Sam costume goose stepping. YOU HAVE BIDEN OVER AND OVER SAYING HE IS A THREAT AND MUST BE STOPPED. CNN and MSNBC putting on guest that says Trump must be eliminated in many disgusting ways. So then you have a crazy little zoomer who watches this over and over and over and decides to action. As the actor in Casablanca said, I'm shocked, shocked that there is gambling in this place as another actor walks up and says, "sir, your earnings' in which he takes the money, puts it in his pocket and leaves.

Hmmmm . . . . .

There is only so much of this "bothsidesism" that I can accept. I am sorry, but Trump actually is a threat to democracy and the Republic. When a politician says wildly irresponsible things and foments violence, that has real consequences. Why should people not be worried about what Trump intends to do? I agree that he must be stopped, and the vast majority of the time, we all agree that he must be stopped through the fair application of the criminal justice system or at the ballot box. Either method is legitimate.

The behavior of the two sides, even their extremes, is pretty lopsidedly bad in the Republican camp.

When has Biden said that the Constitution would have to be suspended?

When has Biden ever said that he would be a dictator on any day?

When did Biden tell his followers that they needed to march on the Capitol during the count of electoral ballots?

Do I think the divide is bad? Yes! Do I think that the temperature is too high? Yes. But that does not change the many ways in which the party of Trump has obviously gone off the rails and that Trump's behavior is unacceptable.