Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[MG 2.0]

If after the Last day, eternity will be on this earth (redeemed earth) With God's children (redeemed sinners) dwelling with our Creator (The Redeemer). The idea of God dwelling with us is all over the Bible: In the Garden - In the Tabernacle - In the Temple - In the second Temple - In the flesh (Jesus) - after Jesus ascended (Holy Spirit) - Jesus Returns.

I agree that in the afterlife we will all be on the other side of the veil and have access to understanding and knowledge that we don't have now.

Granted, trying to conceptualize what the afterlife is like is very difficult to attempt to wrap our minds around. But it's an interesting exercise to attempt to do so even if we can't get past first base except to know that God is in charge and that Jesus has prepared a mansion for each one of us beyond our expectation.

The question I'm asking is, according to your understanding, what will we be doing at home all day in that mansion? When we head down the road for a day's work, what will we do?

It still seems as though your view is rather stagnate/limited other than saying we will "dwell with our Creator". Eternity is a long time.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

You guys are really stretching to make Jesus look like just ‘one of the guys’.

Regards,
MG

You’re disingenuously truncating my post and pretending the portion about Judaism didn’t exist.

You’re dishonestly implying that I have suggested that Jesus was ‘just one of the guys.’

If you're not. Then, OK.

Judaism believes in one God, often referred to as Yahweh or Adonai. Judeo-Christian tradition is integrally connected. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and of prophecy.

I think in this thread we've both said a lot...along with some others.I've enjoyed the back and forth. We strayed off track but it was interesting and worthwhile in my opinion.

We might just have to leave things as they are. Unless you still think you have an important point to make.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

You’re disingenuously truncating my post and pretending the portion about Judaism didn’t exist.

You’re dishonestly implying that I have suggested that Jesus was ‘just one of the guys.’

If you're not. Then, OK.

Judaism believes in one God, often referred to as Yahweh or Adonai. Judeo-Christian tradition is integrally connected. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and of prophecy.

I think in this thread we've both said a lot...along with some others.I've enjoyed the back and forth. We strayed off track but it was interesting and worthwhile in my opinion.

We might just have to leave things as they are. Unless you still think you have an important point to make.

Regards,
MG

The important point is you used a common technique of yours by "disingenuously truncating" someone's post, and "dishonestly implying" something about them that their post in no way indicated.

Back to Morley's point, which in my opinion sums up the situation:

...Even in your own cannon, the Book of Mormon prophets who preceded Jesus taught the God is the Father and that we should worship him. This stuff didn't begin with the earthly ministry of Jesus.

Other religions have God the Father, have prophets with a relationship with God, and have exhortations to pray to God. You maintaining otherwise makes you look like you've never read a book in your life...

...Judaism, while seeing God as a father, does not associate their ancient tradition of personal prayer with Jesus.

On page 40, I also brought up the Zoroastrians.

Zoroastrianism is a couple of thousand years older than Christianity. It's always had a tradition of personal prayer to a creator god.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastri ... %5D%5B3%5D

Jesus did not introduce the idea of personal prayer, as you have suggested. Personal prayer is ubiquitous across time and culture.

And though you have subsequently tried to qualify your assertion as prayer to God as father, Jesus did not introduce that concept, either. It's as old as concepts of God.

[MG 2.0]

Back to Morley's point, which in my opinion sums up the situation:

But of course!

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

I would expect the true religion to define God most closely to the way Jesus defined God. As our Father in Heaven. One in whose image both he (Jesus) and us were created.

Which is ridiculous and totally circular. You expect that because the church you were born into teaches that. You have no independent grounds for expecting the "true religion" would teach such a thing.

[bbbbbbb]

If after the Last day, eternity will be on this earth (redeemed earth) With God's children (redeemed sinners) dwelling with our Creator (The Redeemer). The idea of God dwelling with us is all over the Bible: In the Garden - In the Tabernacle - In the Temple - In the second Temple - In the flesh (Jesus) - after Jesus ascended (Holy Spirit) - Jesus Returns.

I agree that in the afterlife we will all be on the other side of the veil and have access to understanding and knowledge that we don't have now.

Granted, trying to conceptualize what the afterlife is like is very difficult to attempt to wrap our minds around. But it's an interesting exercise to attempt to do so even if we can't get past first base except to know that God is in charge and that Jesus has prepared a mansion for each one of us beyond our expectation.

The question I'm asking is, according to your understanding, what will we be doing at home all day in that mansion? When we head down the road for a day's work, what will we do?

It still seems as though your view is rather stagnate/limited other than saying we will "dwell with our Creator". Eternity is a long time.

Regards,
MG

Actually, procreation seems to be the ultimate activity in the celestial kingdom. The gentleman/god gets to have intercourse constantly with his harem/goddesses, all while surrounded by their children from the mortal world, who are preserved as in aspic in their youth, having never aged or grown to adulthood or having become parents of their own.

[Morley]

You’re disingenuously truncating my post and pretending the portion about Judaism didn’t exist.

You’re dishonestly implying that I have suggested that Jesus was ‘just one of the guys.’

If you're not. Then, OK.

Judaism believes in one God, often referred to as Yahweh or Adonai. Judeo-Christian tradition is integrally connected. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and of prophecy.

I think in this thread we've both said a lot...along with some others.I've enjoyed the back and forth. We strayed off track but it was interesting and worthwhile in my opinion.

We might just have to leave things as they are. Unless you still think you have an important point to make.

Regards,
MG

No it’s not. Ask any Jew. They have the right to define their own religion. They would not say Jesus inspired them to personal prayer.

Saying that a Jesus whom Jews do not worship is a part of their tradition is ludicrous. The Judeo-Christian tradition does not include things that are outside of the belief system of Jews. It consists of the things that Christians and Jews have in common.

To suggest otherwise is to venture into the frankly bizarre and patently offensive.

[Morley]

MG, perhaps you also believe that The Roman Catholic Church enacted the taking of the Eucharist because Joseph Smith laid down the rules for the passing of the Sacrament, eighteen centuries later. After all, both Mormons and Catholics are part of the Christian tradition.

[Morley]

Since somehow MG missed this the first time I posted this, I’m going to post it again. I am willing to break it down into shorter sentences, if it’s too opaque.

“Traditions such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Sikhism have all incorporated personal prayer into their religious practices for centuries, with roots often extending back thousands of years. The universality of personal prayer speaks to its fundamental importance in human spirituality across cultures and religions.”

Yes or no. Was Jesus the first one among the sages of the world to teach his followers to pray to their Father in Heaven?

No.

I answered this on page 39.

Yes.

Morley, knowing that you are one of those folks IHAQ is describing, would you help me out? All of these other ‘sons of gods’. Are there examples of these folks way back when addressing their Father in Heaven in prayer and teaching others how to do so?

I’m not saying that there may not have been some that did…but could you go into a bit of detail and demonstrate this to be so?

An example of a son of god praying to and addressing his Heavenly Father. As it is, this seems like the supreme act of humility.

Regards,
MG

You're being ridiculous.

This was your claim that I was responding to:

He made the claim of being related and/or associated with his “Father in Heaven”. And He taught that we should worship and obey this same Father God.

Then you said that Jesus was the only one to have done this.


Look at the Old Testament:

Isaiah 63:16

"You are our father, for Abraham did not know us, neither did Israel recognize us; You, O [YHWH], are our father; our redeemer of old is your name."

Do I need to also show you where, in The Old Testament, it says we should worship and pray to this same God?


Even in your own cannon, the Book of Mormon prophets who preceded Jesus taught the God is the Father and that we should worship him. This stuff didn't begin with the earthly ministry of Jesus.

Other religions have God the Father, have prophets with a relationship with God, and have exhortations to pray to God. You maintaining otherwise makes you look like you've never read a book in your life. You cite Karen Armstrong. Go back and read what she has to say on this.

By the way, go back and read Manetho. He answers you quite well on all of this.

Judaism, while seeing God as a father, does not associate their ancient tradition of personal prayer with Jesus.




On page 40, I also brought up the Zoroastrians.

Zoroastrianism is a couple of thousand years older than Christianity. It's always had a tradition of personal prayer to a creator god.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastri ... %5D%5B3%5D

Jesus did not introduce the idea of personal prayer, as you have suggested. Personal prayer is ubiquitous across time and culture.

And though you have subsequently tried to qualify your assertion as prayer to God as father, Jesus did not introduce that concept, either. It's as old as concepts of God

[MG 2.0]

If you're not. Then, OK.

Judaism believes in one God, often referred to as Yahweh or Adonai. Judeo-Christian tradition is integrally connected. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and of prophecy.

I think in this thread we've both said a lot...along with some others.I've enjoyed the back and forth. We strayed off track but it was interesting and worthwhile in my opinion.

We might just have to leave things as they are. Unless you still think you have an important point to make.

Regards,
MG

No it’s not. Ask any Jew. They have the right to define their own religion. They would not say Jesus inspired them to personal prayer.

Saying that a Jesus whom Jews do not worship is a part of their tradition is ludicrous. The Judeo-Christian tradition does not include things that are outside of the belief system of Jews. It consists of the things that Christians and Jews have in common.

To suggest otherwise is to venture into the frankly bizarre and patently offensive.

Even though Jesus may not be accepted as Savior by Jews today doesn’t then by definition and/or default mean that Jesus is not the embodied fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy and that Christ is integrally intertwined with Jewish history as it is described in the Old Testament.

Yes, Moses and the other Old Testament prophets are a central part of the Judaeo-Christian tradition. In fact, the Old Testament is a collection of texts that were originally part of the Hebrew Bible, which forms the foundation of Judaism.

The Old Testament contains a number of different types of texts, including historical narratives, legal codes, prophetic writings, and poetry. The stories and teachings of Moses and the prophets are an important part of these texts, and they are often cited as key figures in the history of Judaism and Christianity.

In Christianity, the Old Testament is seen as the first part of the Bible, with the New Testament forming the second part. The stories and teachings of Moses and the prophets are often interpreted as foreshadowing or pointing towards the coming of Jesus, who is seen as the fulfillment of many of the promises and prophecies in the Old Testament.

So in summary, Moses and the other Old Testament prophets are an integral part of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, and their teachings and stories continue to be studied and revered by Jews and Christians alike.
Pi A.I.

Modern Jews and Christians both have connections with the Old Testament. The book in which monotheistic worship and belief were solidified and codified as a result of the visit of Moses to Mt. Sinai.

As I said earlier, Jesus is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. When Jesus brought and taught the higher law to Israel many of the Jews rejected his message and his Messiahship. Nonetheless, Jesus taught his disciples how to pray and they were instructed to pray to their Father in Heaven.

I don’t think that anyone here has made a definitive case for others having done the exact same thing. Jesus was unique among men. He was the Messiah. The Redeemer of mankind.

I get it. This whole ‘Jesus thing’ is central to the secular humanist’s disbelief. There is no way around it. I don’t expect any miraculous conversions here.

Regards,
MG