Six Days in August D.O.A.?

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I Have Questions
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by I Have Questions »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 3:03 pm
The evidence is piling up that DCP’s choice of subject matter is the clear loser for this film.
To be fair it wasn’t Peterson’s initial choice. He had to be convinced by the production company to shoot a film about the succession crisis. Peterson subsequently got on board and declared it “an inspired choice” of subject matter. But it now smells a lot like he’s been taken for a ride by that production company.
One proposal that we discussed quite seriously — I recall that our first conversation about it arose during a long drive from New York City, where we had interviewed Richard Lyman Bushman for Undaunted, down to Fairfax, Virginia, where we were going to interview John Turner — was to do a film about the conversion of C. S. Lewis to Christianity. It’s a story that Lewis himself had told in his 1955 book Surprised by Joy. I was instantly thrilled with the notion. I recall saying to them, “You do know, don’t you?, that I’m a C. S. Lewis fanatic.” “We know,” one of them replied. “That’s why we thought that you would like the idea.”

However, in 2021, the same year in which Witnesses appeared, Fellowship for Performing Arts — a group whose work and mission I greatly admire — premiered its film The Most Reluctant Convert: The Untold Story of C. S. Lewis. It checked every single box of the film that I myself had conceived, and it did so very, very well. Time after time, I would think to myself as I watched it, “Okay, at this place I would make this point” or “Right now, I would make such and such an argument.” And, just about every single time, The Most Reluctant Convert made exactly that point or offered the very argument that I had had in mind.

I could see no purpose in making the film of which I, at least, had conceived. It had already been made, and it had been made very beautifully and effectively.
https://latterdaysaintmag.com/why-this- ... e_vignette
My filmmaking friends, however, were not at all downcast. They immediately came up with another idea for a film. How about, they said, doing one on the August 1844 succession crisis? This difficult time in Church history pitted Sidney Rigdon against the Twelve, and, in particular, against the president of the Twelve, Brigham Young.

I agreed, realizing that this would be a very dramatic story, and that it was an important one to tell. I will frankly confess, though, that it didn’t seem so exciting to me, or of such pivotal, foundational significance, as the story of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon.

But I’ve changed my mind.
Accordingly, I began quite some time ago to regard our decision to make Six Days in August as an inspired one and a timely one, quite beyond my wisdom or that of my filmmaking associates.
It does now seem that the making of 6DIA for in excess of $2 million (at the request of a production team that stood to gain financially from the process) was quite beyond Peterson’s wisdom…
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by drumdude »

No matter. They have a wealthy Mormon billionaire benefactor in Dallas who is quite happy to keep blowing money on these things. At least they did for the Nazi movie.
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:23 pm
I haven't been following the aforementioned blog, but how was it being reported before it was released? Was it always promoted as primarily aimed at members? Or was it said the goal was to arouse the interest of outsiders also? Maybe it has been consistently billed as a member film. Of course, it's possible this is reasoning after the fact.
It is definitely "reasoning after the fact." Prior to the movie's release it was always announced as "Interpreter's next theatrical feature," implying that it was aimed at "everybody." There has never been any indication whatsoever that the intention was to aim it strictly at TBMs. And even the distribution strategy reflects this: it opened in theaters in various far-flung places across the US, and not just in the so-called "Mormon Corridor." The Executive Producer has been remarkably foolish--delusional, even--about this film for a long time now.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by Physics Guy »

Even among people who might go to a film about the conversion of C.S. Lewis, few go to films to see arguments.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
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Tom
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by Tom »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 2:04 am
I’ve pasted my quick notes here, I may come back to them later and clean them up.
Wife squeamish of tar and feathering of Joseph and Sidney
I won't go through all of the Proprietor's comments, but I wanted to ask whether you were referring to your wife or to Emma Smith above. The Proprietor writes: "Rupert notices with apparent disapproval that Emma seems to be 'squeamish' about Joseph’s being tarred and feathered in Ohio. As if such harmless, innocent hijinks somehow merit her disapproval!"
“But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.” Heber C. Kimball, 8 Nov. 1857
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by drumdude »

Tom wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:58 pm
drumdude wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 2:04 am
I’ve pasted my quick notes here, I may come back to them later and clean them up.

I won't go through all of the Proprietor's comments, but I wanted to ask whether you were referring to your wife or to Emma Smith above. The Proprietor writes: "Rupert notices with apparent disapproval that Emma seems to be 'squeamish' about Joseph’s being tarred and feathered in Ohio. As if such harmless, innocent hijinks somehow merit her disapproval!"

My wife buried her head in my arm when they were pouring the hot tar over Joseph’s face. She was also surprised that Joseph the next day had the very slightest amount of blush on his face after the ordeal. Presumably there would have been a lot more damage- maybe yet another Mormon miracle?
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Tom
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by Tom »

Monday, October 21

Gross: $15,700
Theaters: 56
Average per theater: $280
Total domestic gross to date: $249,790
Days: 11
“But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.” Heber C. Kimball, 8 Nov. 1857
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Tom
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by Tom »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:06 pm
Tom wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:58 pm

I won't go through all of the Proprietor's comments, but I wanted to ask whether you were referring to your wife or to Emma Smith above. The Proprietor writes: "Rupert notices with apparent disapproval that Emma seems to be 'squeamish' about Joseph’s being tarred and feathered in Ohio. As if such harmless, innocent hijinks somehow merit her disapproval!"

My wife buried her head in my arm when they were pouring the hot tar over Joseph’s face. She was also surprised that Joseph the next day had the very slightest amount of blush on his face after the ordeal. Presumably there would have been a lot more damage- maybe yet another Mormon miracle?
An account describes Joseph’s “flesh” as “all scarified and defaced,” so I assume he had more than a blush.

I presume the Proprietor will edit his post to reflect that you were referring to your wife rather than Emma Smith.
Last edited by Tom on Wed Oct 23, 2024 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
“But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.” Heber C. Kimball, 8 Nov. 1857
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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Tom wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:38 pm
Monday, October 21

Gross: $15,700
Theaters: 56
Average per theater: $280
Total domestic gross to date: $249,790
Days: 11
Wow! The movie is tanking much faster than I thought.

I had an interesting conversation with a neighbor about why his family will not see Six Days. He told me that Six Days is associated with the sexual predator Tim Ballard and his group. I told him the only connection I was aware of was that the Executive Producer has been a public supporter and has pleaded (since 2014) with people to donate to Tim Ballard's organization.

It's safe to say that if my neighbor ever runs into the Afore at a restaurant, my neighbor just might dump his bowl of goulash on the Afore's head.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
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Re: Six Days in August D.O.A.?

Post by drumdude »

I just read through Dan's comments. I have to again reiterate that I was writing them as I was watching the film, they're not a fully fleshed out review. I am glad I graduated from Dumdud to Rupert, but I have no idea what the connection between me and the new name is.
DCP wrote:Rupert seems to believe that the oxen scene at the film’s beginning involves computer-generated imagery (CGI). It’s unclear, but he may actually imagine that the oxen themselves are computer-generated. They aren’t. Our producer had to work long and hard to find a useable yoke of oxen. That’s why the scene featuring them was among the last that we filmed.

That's really cool. The way they pulled in tandem at the end made me think perhaps it was not accomplishable without CGI. Also Brigham Young using something similar to Star Wars force powers probably biased me towards thinking I was watching CGI.

Rupert is critical of our portrayal of Thomas Sharp as having incited the mob. (Another critic confusedly laments that we’ve tried to blame all of the problems in Nauvoo on “Thomas Marsh,” who doesn’t appear in the film.) But Thomas Sharp did incite the mob. This is historically undeniable.

Again, these were hasty notes. The characters were difficult to follow, even for someone interested in church history like me.

Rupert even complains about a fly appearing in the scene in which Joseph’s death is announced. Perhaps he imagines that flies don’t exist in western Illinois? Or that casting a fly in the film was an anachronism?

Again, just a note I thought was interesting.

He mocks the film for giving Brigham Young’s first wife, Miriam Works, only about thirty seconds of screen time. But this is simply not true. (Perhaps Rupert’s watch has run down?) She appears in multiple scenes, each of them longer than thirty seconds.

Relative to the 2 hour length of the movie, her appearance seems very small.

Rupert reports that his wife thought the movie — and particularly, it seems, the “tree-chopping scene” — somewhat “homoerotic.” In charity, I think that I probably shouldn’t comment on someone’s perception of friendship between men as, somehow, ipso facto “gay.” Rupert himself wonders why Brigham spends so much time in the movie with Heber C. Kimball. It might be, of course, because they were neighbors and best friends in Mendon, New York, from the time before their conversion and because they were fellow apostles. (When the First Presidency was reorganized after the death of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, Brigham Young called Heber C. Kimball to serve as his first counselor.) Such things could potentially have played a role, I suspect . . .

Once again, as someone who was watching the movie for the first time, the characters and their relationship was very difficult to follow. My wife isn't as familiar with Mormon culture, and I thought her perspective was interesting even if I didn't myself completely agree.

A couple of years after Miriam’s death, Brigham — a young widower with two small daughters — married Mary Ann Angell. Rupert describes this as “polygamy” but, of course, it wasn’t. Unless, of course, one labels as a “polygamist” every widow or widower who remarries after the death of a spouse.

It's polygamy in the same way that many current apostles are polygamists - they're sealed to multiple women for eternity.

Rupert notices with apparent disapproval that Emma seems to be “squeamish” about Joseph’s being tarred and feathered in Ohio. As if such harmless, innocent hijinks somehow merit her disapproval!

This has been addressed above

In one scene, Brigham and Heber, who are both greatly weakened by illness, manage to stand up in a wagon as they depart on a mission. To encourage their wives, they cry out “Hurrah for Israel!” Rupert denigrates this as a “weird adventure motif.” Well, I suppose there’s no accounting for taste, but the details of the scene are firmly based on actual historical records.

It continues the motif established early in the film, that Brigham is on some kind of special adventure. I would contrast this with, say, how priests in the film "The Mission" are portrayed.

Rupert complains that all of the scenery in Six Days in August looks the same. I’m not sure why he thinks so. In any case, the shooting for the film was done in western New York; Ontario, Canada; Tennessee; and Idaho; as well as at the Latter-day Saint Motion Picture Studio in Provo and the “This is the Place Monument” in Salt Lake City.

I had this thought while watching Brigham visit Britain. This seems to confirm my impression that the scene wasn't actually shot on location.

Although they often appeared with Heber C. Kimball and Brigham Young, Rupert somehow never managed to identify Wilford Woodruff or George A. Smith and reports being still confused by them. That puzzles me, since they’re repeatedly named in the film.

Again, the characters were very difficult for me to follow. I may be the only audience member to experience this, I'd love to know if anyone else had similar difficulty.

Remembering that the title of the film is Six Days in August, Rupert complains that we completely omitted Day 3. It seems, though, that he must have nodded off or gone to the restroom at about the one hour and thirty-two minute mark.

I believe one of the days was omitted, if it wasn't day 3. Several of the days consisted of someone arriving in town, which seems hardly noteworthy enough to even deserve its own title card.

Finally, Rupert wants to know why Joseph Smith Jr. isn’t depicted as a factor during the “six days” of maneuvering between Sidney Rigdon and the Twelve that occurred in August 1844 and that provide the title of the movie. The obvious answer, of course, is that Joseph Smith Jr. is dead by that point. So I suppose that Rupert really means to ask about Joseph Smith III. But Joseph III was only eleven years old at the time, and he wasn’t a factor. The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints wasn’t founded until 1860, fully sixteen years after the events centrally represented in the film

Again just my thoughts during the film, and I thought it was interesting that at 11 years old, this potential successor wasn't even shown.
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