CWK: Becoming a god: deification in Mormonism and Orthodox theosis

[Markk]

??? It was her religion, she had to work through the lies for years? Do you feel the same way about Vogel and RFM? Or is only because she is evangelical? It appears and you can correct me here, that your issues with the Tanners is their faith, not their "scholarship" and research?

Sandra has been open and clear about her faith, and transparent....what do you believe? Do you believe Joseph Smith was prophet of God?

Markk, how can anyone possibly ignore the fact that she made a career of being an anti-Mormon? That she contributed to the prejudice against Mormonism in the United States, even if only a bit--but that bit was actually not negligible? I don't think that hiding behind faith whitewashes the prejudicial nature of the enterprise. And, frankly, I do have a big problem with that aspect of Protestant Christianity that seeks to render other traditions Satanic. I think any person of good conscience should. I know for a fact that at least one close associate of Sandra views Joseph Smith's revelatory sources to be demonic. This is exactly the view we get from the worst kind of anti-Mormon tripe. These activities have negative consequences, and of course I do not condone the prejudice against my people. Don't be absurd.

Kish this site is anti-Mormon (ism), I am anti- Mormonism (ism), just about everybody here is anti-Mormonism, you spend countless hours here on a anti-Mormonism site, anti conservative site and anti Christian site. Personally my hypocrisy only goes so far. Sandra would be the first to tell you she is not anti-Mormon, but like those here, anti Mormonism. She has no doubt helped countless people deal with come to terms with the lies of the LDS church and their origins and of there leaders.

Maybe you missed my question, but what is the difference between her, Dan Vogel and RFM? Is her religion? She has put her faith out there, what is your faith (what you believe). Do you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God....these are fair questions.

Is Sandra Tanner more anti "Mormon" in your opinion than RFM, who you said is the best?

[Kishkumen]

Let’s not decry the Tanners for not being perfect, because they done a lot of good for a lot of people within the Mormon people. Good that would not have happened without anti-Mormonism.

I don’t decry the Tanners for not being perfect. I decry their anti-Mormonism. I have acknowledged that they did some good things that I am grateful for. I do not condone their anti-Mormonism.

[huckelberry]

I do not think I can find any portion of my mind which would accept the idea that a religion, any religion should be beyond or exempt from criticism. I think it is a human duty to consider criticism. Now there is a difference between criticism and demonization. Demonizing the other corrupts all around I think.

Criticism which fails to try to understand the other position may not be as bad as demonizing but subtracts from peoples respect and care for each other.

I decline a judgement of the Tanners, they start from inside the LDS community so start with an insiders understanding. They have provided information which others must decide what to do with for themselves. I see a valuable service there. It is possible that the information has amped up prejudices against Mormons in some quarters but such feelings were vigorous before the Tanners.

[Kishkumen]

Kish this site is anti-Mormon (ism), I am anti- Mormonism (ism), just about everybody here is anti-Mormonism, you spend countless hours here on a anti-Mormonism site, anti conservative site and anti Christian site. Personally my hypocrisy only goes so far. Sandra would be the first to tell you she is not anti-Mormon, but like those here, anti Mormonism. She has no doubt helped countless people deal with come to terms with the lies of the LDS church and their origins and of there leaders.

Maybe you missed my question, but what is the difference between her, Dan Vogel and RFM? Is her religion? She has put her faith out there, what is your faith (what you believe). Do you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God....these are fair questions.

Is Sandra Tanner more anti "Mormon" in your opinion than RFM, who you said is the best?

I like Sandra! I like some anti-Mormons! Some of my favorite people are anti-Mormons! Why do I have to approve of their anti-Mormonism to like them and enjoy associating with them? This is, in my mind, about what I choose to do, not whom I choose to associate with. I consider myself a critic of the LDS Church, not anti-Mormonism (if you prefer). I think it best not to take these partisan conflicts too seriously.

[Kishkumen]

I do not think I can find any portion of my mind which would accept the idea that a religion, any religion should be beyond or exempt from criticism. I think it is a human duty to consider criticism. Now there is a difference between criticism and demonization. Demonizing the other corrupts all around I think.

Criticism which fails to try to understand the other position may not be as bad as demonizing but subtracts from peoples respect and care for each other.

I decline a judgement of the Tanners, they start from inside the LDS community so start with an insiders understanding. They have provided information which others must decide what to do with for themselves. I see a valuable service there. It is possible that the information has amped up prejudices against Mormons in some quarters but such feelings were vigorous before the Tanners.

I never said any religion should be beyond criticism.

[Jesse Pinkman]

The moral of this story is, if someone asks you if you’re a God, you say YES!



Sorry…thought I would lighten the mood on this thread a little:

https://youtu.be/TwzUAKSXqUc?si=chJvAJKlEWzeXc6T

Happy Halloween!!

[Markk]

Kish this site is anti-Mormon (ism), I am anti- Mormonism (ism), just about everybody here is anti-Mormonism, you spend countless hours here on a anti-Mormonism site, anti conservative site and anti Christian site. Personally my hypocrisy only goes so far. Sandra would be the first to tell you she is not anti-Mormon, but like those here, anti Mormonism. She has no doubt helped countless people deal with come to terms with the lies of the LDS church and their origins and of there leaders.

Maybe you missed my question, but what is the difference between her, Dan Vogel and RFM? Is her religion? She has put her faith out there, what is your faith (what you believe). Do you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God....these are fair questions.

Is Sandra Tanner more anti "Mormon" in your opinion than RFM, who you said is the best?

I like Sandra! I like some anti-Mormons! Some of my favorite people are anti-Mormons! Why do I have to approve of their anti-Mormonism to like them and enjoy associating with them? This is, in my mind, about what I choose to do, not whom I choose to associate with. I consider myself a critic of the LDS Church, not anti-Mormonism (if you prefer). I think it best not to take these partisan conflicts too seriously.

You wrote of the Tanners...


Well Kish, I am confused in that your posts seem to read otherwise. What is the difference between their work versus Vogel and RFM's? And, what is the difference between anti-Mormonism vs. being a critic of the LDS church? I get it when one (my view) says they are not anti-Mormon (the individual) but anti-Mormonism (doctrine and policy)....but help me out here, what is the difference between anti-Mormonism vs. being a critic of the LDS church?

Thanks

[Kishkumen]

You wrote of the Tanners...


Well Kish, I am confused in that your posts seem to read otherwise. What is the difference between their work versus Vogel and RFM's? And, what is the difference between anti-Mormonism vs. being a critic of the LDS church? I get it when one (my view) says they are not anti-Mormon (the individual) but anti-Mormonism (doctrine and policy)....but help me out here, what is the difference between anti-Mormonism vs. being a critic of the LDS church?

Thanks

Anti-Mormonism=against Mormonism, opponent of Mormonism
Critic of the LDS Church=not against Mormonism, but critical of the LDS Church

Does that help?

There is a long history of Christian anti-Mormonism that argues Mormonism is Satanic or demonic, and that Mormons are not Christians. I have a much bigger problem with that than other former Mormons criticizing or arguing against Mormonism without that Christian bigotry. Such anti-Mormon ministries make the lives of young missionaries harder and increase prejudice against Mormon people, as well as their alienation from the rest of Christianity.

[Markk]

You wrote of the Tanners...


Well Kish, I am confused in that your posts seem to read otherwise. What is the difference between their work versus Vogel and RFM's? And, what is the difference between anti-Mormonism vs. being a critic of the LDS church? I get it when one (my view) says they are not anti-Mormon (the individual) but anti-Mormonism (doctrine and policy)....but help me out here, what is the difference between anti-Mormonism vs. being a critic of the LDS church?

Thanks

Anti-Mormonism=against Mormonism, opponent of Mormonism
Critic of the LDS Church=not against Mormonism, but critical of the LDS Church

Does that help?

There is a long history of Christian anti-Mormonism that argues Mormonism is Satanic or demonic, and that Mormons are not Christians. I have a much bigger problem with that than other former Mormons criticizing or arguing against Mormonism without that Christian bigotry. Such anti-Mormon ministries make the lives of young missionaries harder and increase prejudice against Mormon people, as well as their alienation from the rest of Christianity.

So then you dislike the Tanner's approach because they approach it from what you call Christian bigotry. What bigotry do RFM and Vogel approach it from? You seem to be reluctant to compare the bias's and bigotry of Vogel and RFM to that of the Tanners...why?

In doctrine, Mormonism attacks Christianity, can you concede that? When I was LDS I believed we were the only true Christian church....didn't you?

[Kishkumen]

In doctrine, Mormonism attacks Christianity, can you concede that? When I was LDS I believed we were the only true Christian church....didn't you?

Mormonism does not call Christians Satanic or demonic, does not deny they are Christians, does not say they are in a cult.