Hillary 2.0

[drumdude]

If Trump wins, how many of you would vote for Kamala in the next primary race? Don’t you have other Democratic candidates that align more closely with your values?

I honestly don’t think she would make it very far in the 2028 primaries, given her past performance in 2020.

Nobody cares about Hillary anymore, and likely the same will be true of Harris if Trump defeats her. If Obama was a 10/10 candidate, she’s sitting around 5/10.

[huckelberry]

If you know anything about my posting history, you know that I agree with you on Biden. I didn't think he should have been running, and I would have preferred an open primary.

US political parties are not very agile, however. They are big, lumbering, opaque beasts that have to satisfy a myriad of competing interests. That they occasionally get some things kind of right is something of a miracle in itself.

I'll be interested to see how the Harris gamble plays out. We'll know in a little more than a week.

I think the duopoly has to die. Trump is kind of the case in point about how dangerous and flawed the two party system is. As awful as he is, he could be just the beginning.

drumdude, I can see you have real reasons for frustration but Morley has a point. Even with primaries you should remember you are picking between people chosen by political operatives and rich people. Other people that might be good do not have means to run or be elected. It takes people coming together. This creates political parties, ungainly clusters of people and powers who sort of agree.

It could be remembered that we do not have a two party system, we usually have two leading parties. My ballot had ten people to choose from for president.

[Res Ipsa]

If Trump wins, how many of you would vote for Kamala in the next primary race? Don’t you have other Democratic candidates that align more closely with your values?

I honestly don’t think she would make it very far in the 2028 primaries, given her past performance in 2020.

Nobody cares about Hillary anymore, and likely the same will be true of Harris if Trump defeats her. If Obama was a 10/10 candidate, she’s sitting around 5/10.

It entirely depends on how well I think she performs as President and who else throws their hat into the ring.

[drumdude]

If Trump wins, how many of you would vote for Kamala in the next primary race? Don’t you have other Democratic candidates that align more closely with your values?

I honestly don’t think she would make it very far in the 2028 primaries, given her past performance in 2020.

Nobody cares about Hillary anymore, and likely the same will be true of Harris if Trump defeats her. If Obama was a 10/10 candidate, she’s sitting around 5/10.

It entirely depends on how well I think she performs as President and who else throws their hat into the ring.

In this scenario we’re assuming she loses this election and runs in the primary for the 2028 election only having been a vice president.

I just think it illustrates the essential idea that while she’s better than Trump, she’s far from the ideal Democratic candidate. An alternate universe where Biden dropped out in January would have had multiple candidates competing for the nomination. I’m sure there will be a lot of this second guessing if Trump wins on Tuesday.

Hopefully all of this discussion is moot once Harris wins.

[Res Ipsa]

I think the duopoly has to die. Trump is kind of the case in point about how dangerous and flawed the two party system is. As awful as he is, he could be just the beginning.

drumdude, I can see you have real reasons for frustration but Morley has a point. Even with primaries you should remember you are picking between people chosen by political operatives and rich people. Other people that might be good do not have means to run or be elected. It takes people coming together. This creates political parties, ungainly clusters of people and powers who sort of agree.

It could be remembered that we do not have a two party system, we usually have two leading parties. My ballot had ten people to choose from for president.

Hi Huck. Mine did, too. Do you remember the OWL party? I miss those guys. Even so, we effectively have a two party system and will likely to have that until I’m no longer a voter. I’m not seeing any movement toward the kind of structural changes that would allow more than two parties to flourish.

[Res Ipsa]

It entirely depends on how well I think she performs as President and who else throws their hat into the ring.

In this scenario we’re assuming she loses this election and runs in the primary for the 2028 election only having been a vice president.

I just think it illustrates the essential idea that while she’s better than Trump, she’s far from the ideal Democratic candidate. An alternate universe where Biden dropped out in January would have had multiple candidates competing for the nomination. I’m sure there will be a lot of this second guessing if Trump wins on Tuesday.

Hopefully all of this discussion is moot once Harris wins.

Sorry, I misread. The “ideal” Democratic candidate is a unicorn. When a party has a broad and diverse base, the best candidate is most likely to be a compromise that fires no one’s vision of “ideal.” I can almost guarantee that my ideal candidate would win few, if any, EVs.

[dantana]

In this scenario we’re assuming she loses this election and runs in the primary for the 2028 election only having been a vice president.

I just think it illustrates the essential idea that while she’s better than Trump, she’s far from the ideal Democratic candidate. An alternate universe where Biden dropped out in January would have had multiple candidates competing for the nomination. I’m sure there will be a lot of this second guessing if Trump wins on Tuesday.

Hopefully all of this discussion is moot once Harris wins.

Sorry, I misread. The “ideal” Democratic candidate is a unicorn. When a party has a broad and diverse base, the best candidate is most likely to be a compromise that fires no one’s vision of “ideal.” I can almost guarantee that my ideal candidate would win few, if any, EVs.

I'm not with you on this one Res. I think the Democrats could run PeeWee effing Herman in his coffin and not lose a single Democrat vote. It's the Twump base that need to be appealed to. The ones that can be swung over by posting up the perfect hybrid. A big, brash, good-looking white guy. A cross between Fetterman, Shapiro and Newsome.

He must be out there somewhere. Go find him as... we're probably gonna need him in about 4.

[drumdude]

Sorry, I misread. The “ideal” Democratic candidate is a unicorn. When a party has a broad and diverse base, the best candidate is most likely to be a compromise that fires no one’s vision of “ideal.” I can almost guarantee that my ideal candidate would win few, if any, EVs.

I'm not with you on this one Res. I think the Democrats could run PeeWee effing Herman in his coffin and not lose a single Democrat vote. It's the Twump base that need to be appealed to. The ones that can be swung over by posting up the perfect hybrid. A big, brash, good-looking white guy. A cross between Fetterman, Shaporo and Newsome.

He must be out there somewhere. Go find him as... we're probably gonna need him in about 4.

That’s an interesting perspective. I’m not sure many Trumpers can be swayed. To me at least it seems they have more loyalty to Trump than to the Republican Party or even the conservative movement. To them, voting for a Democrat would be as unpalatable as voting for Satan himself.

[ceeboo]

I'm not with you on this one Res. I think the Democrats could run PeeWee effing Herman in his coffin and not lose a single Democrat vote. It's the Twump base that need to be appealed to. The ones that can be swung over by posting up the perfect hybrid. A big, brash, good-looking white guy. A cross between Fetterman, Shaporo and Newsome.

He must be out there somewhere. Go find him as... we're probably gonna need him in about 4.

That’s an interesting perspective. I’m not sure many Trumpers can be swayed. To me at least it seems they have more loyalty to Trump than to the Republican Party or even the conservative movement. To them, voting for a Democrat would be as unpalatable as voting for Satan himself.

Well, given the choice between Satan himself and a D, I think the D would have better than a 50/50 shot (especially if, as suggested, this D was a white male - A straight white male would be marvelous) - But I get your very reasonable, even handed, and balanced point.

By the way, how many Harrisers do you think can be swayed?

[drumdude]

That’s an interesting perspective. I’m not sure many Trumpers can be swayed. To me at least it seems they have more loyalty to Trump than to the Republican Party or even the conservative movement. To them, voting for a Democrat would be as unpalatable as voting for Satan himself.

Well, given the choice between Satan himself and a D, I think the D would have better than a 50/50 shot (especially if, as suggested, this D was a white male - A straight white male would be marvelous) - But I get your very reasonable, even handed, and balanced point.

By the way, how many Harrisers do you think can be swayed?

If Trump wins again, there’s going to be a whole generation of Americans that doesn’t remember what American conservatism was like before Trump. It’s kind of difficult for me to even remember what it was like, it seems like we’ve been stuck here forever now.