Trump Supporters Can't Be Trusted

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

"Never believe that MAGAs are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, and open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since they believe in words. Sure, MAGAs have the right to play their games. They even like to play with trolling, because by giving ridiculous reasons they aim to discredit the seriousness of their opponents. They delight in acting like aggrieved victims, since they don’t want to persuade by sound argument but look to intimidate and confuse.

If you show them how they’ve been wrong or misinformed, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some utterance that they’ve been treated unfairly." - Jean Cam NC for Me

[canpakes]

Biden's exact quote - "The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters." -Then he goes on to talk about demonization (which both sides do a ton - Including Biden/Harris)

You should definitely not vote for Biden, then. I know that I won’t.

I wonder if Biden meant the comment in the same way that Trump described our border situation, as “We're a dumping ground. We're like a garbage can for the world”? What - or who - was Trump referring to?

One of these guys is still on the ballot. What to do?

… After all, millions and millions of my fellow Americans are being rebuked and berated on a daily basis by a mob of bullies (I'm not very fond of bullies). Ridiculousness would be to remain silent as you watch it happening day after day after day., in my opinion.

I admire your pluck, Ceeboo, but I don’t think that you’re going to get Trump to stop posting on Truth Social.

[ceeboo]

I doubt any of them realize it at this point, but Trump fans “F” themselves by admitting they're Trump fans. It's a clear indication they can't be trusted. Their analysis is bad, they are given to wishful thinking, and they have a distorted world view. They are ignorant, stupid, belligerent, insane, or some combination of all four.

They might as well advertise themselves as Christians. When all you can do is offer your feelings as evidence for everything you have to say, you don't deserve to be trusted with anything.

I won't do business with anyone who has even a whiff of Trump admiration. They are damaged goods. They might as well admit they're pedophiles or rapists. Their reputation comes out the same.

Now that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt what Republicans are thanks to MAGA, I won’t associate with anyone who votes for our American Nazi Party."

"It is beyond perplexing to understand how a human being with at least modest levels of reason and rational could possibly draw a uniformed conclusion that covers (circa) 90 million complex and individual American citizens - To even think such a thing, let alone write it on an internet message board - speaks volumes about the author.

If you were to show them the clear bias in their statement, the silliness to even utter such a statement, the narrow mindedness that would be required to write such a statement, and the level of intolerance needed to make such a statement, they would simply and comfortably return to their MO - a personal insult or a mockery of your worldview" - Mrs. Ceeboo

[Res Ipsa]

Ceeboo, your conclusion that Biden would accept Schmo’s rhetoric is beyond ridiculous. It is based solely on your personal bias. At most, the single example you supplied for Biden is ambiguous because he doesn’t expressly state what he is labeling as garbage. It isn’t even clear whether he is calling people garbage or the dehumanizing language that people use is garbage. But more importantly, calling all Trump supporters garbage, which is the interpretation you are choosing to put on his words, is completely inconsistent with the way he talks about the American people.

In that video, Biden is visibly distraught at the notion that a political campaign would refer to Puerto Ricans, who are bona fide real American citizens as “garbage”. He’s talking about Trump supporters who do that. And I can be confident in that because, in contrast to Trump and those who speak on his behalf at his rallies and in interviews, Biden does not routinely describe American citizens. If you disagree, show me. I can give thousands of examples from Trump rallies, from both Trump and the supporters he platforms at his campaign events, of not just one ambiguous reference, but a firehouse of dehumanization. Neither Biden nor Harris has done anything remotely close. If you’re going to claim otherwise, let’s test it by going head to head as I’ve suggested.

I want to be perfectly clear: “both siderism” or “false equivalence” is hard wired into our brains. It’s a cognitive bias that lets our brains reduce the effect of cognitive dissonance. It’s one of those biases that we have to work at avoiding. So, getting caught up in false equivalence doesn’t mean that a person is stupid, or ignorant, or evil, or human garbage. It means they are fellow bits of sentient carbon with typical brains found in fellow bits of sentient carbon.

But, the problem with a good person caught up in false equivalence is that the result is acceptance of harm to our fellow bits of sentient carbon. Yes, you can make a perfectly valid argument that using demonizing language is always wrong and that use of that language is wrong whether we’re talking about a single use or a constant use. But what that allows our brains to ignore is the difference in harm on the ground in the real world between a single use of a demeaning word and a relentless campaign of targeted dehumanization. And in terms of harm to our fellow sentient bits of carbon., the two cases are universes apart.

You don’t get good people looking the other way or remaining silent in the face of holocausts or genocide or other mass slaughters of our fellow bits of sentient carbon absent dehumanization of the victims. Dehumanization is the tool that demagogues use to persuade good bits of sentient carbon to murder their fellow sentient bits of carbon out to look the other way while other do so. It’s what is used to justify closing our eyes by the infliction of suffering on others.

I can make my case for the real harm to real people from dehumanization by demagogues using lots of historical examples. I can also make the case that Donald Trump is the most extreme candidate in terms of using dehumanization as a political strategy during my lifetime, and it isn’t even close. If you really believe that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are in the same universe as Donald Trump in terms of outright demonization of our fellow bits of sentient carbon, please roll up your sleeves. That’s a hill I am perfectly willing to die on.

I’m going to ask a question purely because I hope you will give it serious thought: How confident are you that you are not closing your eyes to the real harm caused by the deliberate, targeted dehumanization strategy employed by Donald Trump and those who express their support for him at his rallies when you react by asserting “both sides do it?”

[canpakes]

I’m going to ask a question purely because I hope you will give it serious thought: How confident are you that you are not closing your eyes to the real harm caused by the deliberate, targeted dehumanization strategy employed by Donald Trump and those who express their support for him at his rallies when you react by asserting “both sides do it?”

No one taking umbrage at Biden’s unusual comment - after doing their best to make it the equivalent of Trump’s everyday language - is actually concerned enough about Biden’s comment to have affect their choice of candidate, especially after equivocating how ‘both sides do it’.

This is just posturing.

I know that your own appraisal will be kinder, but I have to call it like I see it.

[Kishkumen]

I have differences with ceeboo, but I love ceeboo. It really concerns me that we are so anxious about the election that we are getting increasingly unguarded in taking out that anxiety on people who talk with us here all the time.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I have differences with ceeboo, but I love ceeboo. It really concerns me that we are so anxious about the election that we are getting increasingly unguarded in taking out that anxiety on people who talk with us here all the time.

It’s not the election that matters, it’s what comes after. This isn’t an intellectual exercise. Just as women are dying as a result of Republican policies now, Americans will die in droves due to similar awful policies.

- Doc

[canpakes]

I have differences with ceeboo, but I love ceeboo. It really concerns me that we are so anxious about the election that we are getting increasingly unguarded in taking out that anxiety on people who talk with us here all the time.

It’s not always as bad as it looks sometimes. Anyone with children, or who have family members younger or older than themselves, have surely had differences of opinion with those members or wondered why they did ‘x’ thing, and maybe even called them out on it. That’s human nature. It won’t always mean that we cannot still care for each other as fellow human beings.

(Disclaimer: If your parents never had children, then this comment does not apply to you.)

[Kishkumen]

It’s not the election that matters, it’s what comes after. This isn’t an intellectual exercise. Just as women are dying as a result of Republican policies now, Americans will die in droves due to similar awful policies.

- Doc

Will this change ceeboo’s vote?

[ceeboo]

Ceeboo, your conclusion that Biden would accept Schmo’s rhetoric is beyond ridiculous. It is based solely on your personal bias.

Perhaps - I am willing to consider that my bias is at play here - at least to some degree.

At most, the single example you supplied for Biden is ambiguous because he doesn’t expressly state what he is labeling as garbage. It isn’t even clear whether he is calling people garbage or the dehumanizing language that people use is garbage.

I'm not trying to be a prick (promise) but I think people can hear a quote and be fairly confident about what the person is saying (maybe your bias has entered the room?) - Here is the exact quote again: "The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters."
To me, it seems clear - He is referring to Trump's supporters as garbage. Attempting to provide any other conclusion strikes me as the hard work of a professional seasoned lawyer.

I can also make the case that Donald Trump is the most extreme candidate in terms of using dehumanization as a political strategy during my lifetime, and it isn’t even close.

Hitler? Nazi? Dictator? Satan?

Do these politically motivated attempts to dehumanize land on your scale? If so, where do they land? (My personal opinion is that Trump is not any of those things - for the sake of this one point, just pretend that you were me and that you don't believe Trump is Hitler/Nazi/Dictator/Satan either so we can get to your weights/scale)

I'm going to ask a question purely because I hope you will give it serious thought: How confident are you that you are not closing your eyes to the real harm caused by the deliberate, targeted dehumanization strategy employed by Donald Trump and those who express their support for him at his rallies when you react by asserting “both sides do it?”

In addition to providing an answer now, I will chew on it some.

How confident am I that I am not closing my eyes? 70%

I say 70% (which is obviously much less than 100%) because I admit that I am very much against a Harris Presidency, and because of that alone, I think it has the real potential to impact/influence how I see/evaluate specific individual events that have to do with Trump (as well as Harris).

But, as I said, I will give it some more thought.