CWK #39: LDS members become critics

[Kishkumen]

In this episode of Coffee with Kish, I introduce the viewers to some of the history of this board, as told from my perspective. I recall the transition of some apologists to becoming critics (Graham, Osborne, Shirts), talk a bit about Scratch's leak of the correspondence regarding the Maxwell "coup," and bring up the Doctor's yearly Top Ten, as well as our yearly Smithmas celebrations.

https://youtu.be/vjaBs9f2chk?si=ECLxJ7cKlDRJm9xS

Enjoy!

[Tom]

A delightful episode, Kishkumen. (I do confess that I was stunned when I watched you drink what appeared to be water.)

Regarding Smithmas celebrations, I am reminded of the timeless words of Elder Joseph F. Smith on the occasion of special services held in Salt Lake City's Sixteenth Ward meetinghouse on December 23, 1894, in honor of the birthday of Joseph Smith:

We do a great deal of celebrating in one way and another. We celebrate the birthdays of our favorite generals and great men of the age, and we have special holidays when we suspend our labors and cares of life and engage in such pleasing pastimes as will best suit us. We sometimes, too, celebrate occasions on which some great events have taken place, and so on. I should like to see introduced among the Latter-day Saints, even at the risk of introducing another general holiday, the practice of celebrating or commemorating the birthday of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It is now over fifty years since he was martyred; and during those fifty years, we have never had to my knowledge more than a small private gathering occasionally, in honor of the birthday of the man who was chosen of God and designated by His voice to be the mouthpiece of God Almighty to the inhabitants of the earth in the dispensation of the fullness of times. The only exception I recall was when, on the 23rd of December, 1892, a general fast was proclaimed and observed among the Latter-day Saints, preparatory to the final completion and dedication of the Salt Lake Temple in April following. We celebrate what is supposed to be the birthday of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but we get a long way off from His birthday; so that now, instead of celebrating the real birthday of our Lord, which was on the 6th of April, we celebrate the 25th of December in each year. And it is a proper thing that we should hallow His birthday, above all others. And in my judgment—and of course I may be a little biased in regard to this matter—in my judgment the next birthday celebration to that of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ should be that of Joseph Smith, to this entire people of the Latter-day Saints.

Collected Discourses 1886-1898, vol. 5.

A report of the services from the Deseret Evening News of December 24, 1894: https://newspapers.lib.utah.edu/details?id=1626136.

[Kishkumen]

A delightful episode, Kishkumen. (I do confess that I was stunned when I watched you drink what appeared to be water.)

Regarding Smithmas celebrations, I am reminded of the timeless words of Elder Joseph F. Smith on the occasion of special services held in Salt Lake City's Sixteenth Ward meetinghouse on December 23, 1894, in honor of the birthday of Joseph Smith:

We do a great deal of celebrating in one way and another. We celebrate the birthdays of our favorite generals and great men of the age, and we have special holidays when we suspend our labors and cares of life and engage in such pleasing pastimes as will best suit us. We sometimes, too, celebrate occasions on which some great events have taken place, and so on. I should like to see introduced among the Latter-day Saints, even at the risk of introducing another general holiday, the practice of celebrating or commemorating the birthday of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It is now over fifty years since he was martyred; and during those fifty years, we have never had to my knowledge more than a small private gathering occasionally, in honor of the birthday of the man who was chosen of God and designated by His voice to be the mouthpiece of God Almighty to the inhabitants of the earth in the dispensation of the fullness of times. The only exception I recall was when, on the 23rd of December, 1892, a general fast was proclaimed and observed among the Latter-day Saints, preparatory to the final completion and dedication of the Salt Lake Temple in April following. We celebrate what is supposed to be the birthday of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but we get a long way off from His birthday; so that now, instead of celebrating the real birthday of our Lord, which was on the 6th of April, we celebrate the 25th of December in each year. And it is a proper thing that we should hallow His birthday, above all others. And in my judgment—and of course I may be a little biased in regard to this matter—in my judgment the next birthday celebration to that of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ should be that of Joseph Smith, to this entire people of the Latter-day Saints.

Collected Discourses 1886-1898, vol. 5.

A report of the services from the Deseret Evening News of December 24, 1894: https://newspapers.lib.utah.edu/details?id=1626136.

Thank you for all of this Tom! I appreciate you watching the episode, and your contributions to the evolution of this exciting new holiday will not go unnoticed!

[Doctor Scratch]

A very enjoyable episode, Reverend, and I'm glad that you also see how Midsommar is very clearly a "Mormon" movie. Even watching the film in the theater clear back when it came out, I couldn't escape the feeling that I was, in a sense, being transported back to sacrament meeting, or the baptismal font, etc....

[Kishkumen]

A very enjoyable episode, Reverend, and I'm glad that you also see how Midsommar is very clearly a "Mormon" movie. Even watching the film in the theater clear back when it came out, I couldn't escape the feeling that I was, in a sense, being transported back to sacrament meeting, or the baptismal font, etc....

Thank you, Doctor! Your reading is brilliant. No doubt in my mind that Midsommar is a great Mormon film. You really should pursue a longer treatment for publication in a peer reviewed journal!

[Gadianton]

A humbling episode for sure, Rev. Thanks for your thoughts here and for your support of the university.

[Marcus]

A humbling episode for sure, Rev....

Oh. Why is that?

[Kishkumen]

A humbling episode for sure, Rev. Thanks for your thoughts here and for your support of the university.

Well, it is all true as regards your sterling character and formidable mind, Dean Robbers. You are a real credit to our school.

[Dr. Shades]

Someone in the comments section is mistaking this message board for Bill Reel’s MormonDiscussion.com.

It’s times like this that I really wish he hadn’t chosen a name so similar to our previous one.

[Kishkumen]

Someone in the comments section is mistaking this message board for Bill Reel’s MormonDiscussion.com.

It’s times like this that I really wish he hadn’t chosen a name so similar to our previous one.

Yeah, I was not happy about that, but it is what it is at this point. DiscussMormonism is a better name anyway. I love the imperative mood.