Should the Dehlin/Rosebud drama be deleted?

[Rosebud]

Everyone, thanks again for everything you have posted. I have read each one and done my best to digest them.

IMPORTANT: Rosebud is **NOT** in danger of being banned. No matter what happens to her megathread, she'll be just as welcome to keep participating here as anyone else.

SIDE NOTE: Mr. Dehlin has **NOT** threatened this board, legally or otherwise.

Considering everything that's been posted, and how relatively close the votes have been, I believe the proper and prudent action is to move Rosebud's megathread to the Telestial Forum, where personal attacks are allowed. Yes, I will consider allegations of illegal conduct as personal attacks, and since the target of said attacks is a poster here, those charges and the thread in which they reside can and should be reclassified as Telestial.

In order to avoid censoring her or curtailing her freedom of speech, she and everyone else will be able to continue to read and post in it. The difference is that only registered users--those with "skin in the game"--will be able to see it, no one else.

The next step will be to decide if this thread, too, should be moved to the Telestial Forum, since it refers to said attacks. For now, though, I think I'll leave it (i.e., THIS thread, not the megathread) here until participation in it ends, then move it.

Marcus and drumdude, hopefully you will now agree that the rules are being followed.

To give Marcus and Drumdude control over who sees my information is very insulting to me personally. They have treated me awfully and I have used a great deal of patience and attempts at compassion and kindness to do my best to not retaliate. I have sought to treat them far better than they treat me.

The entire purpose of my thread is to keep a public record, not a private record. If the Telestial board is private, there is little purpose to my thread.

From my perspective, I am the only one with any real skin in this, and it is not a game. These are real issues that affect many people, the very least of which are the members of this little message board on the back side of the Internet…. posters with no skin in these matters and people who consider it a game when it is definitely not.

I would appreciate it if you, Dr. Shades, would indeed keep this thread here so the public knows to sign in and find my record.

Other than that, I think it’s goodbye. My purpose has been ended and the exposure that needs to happen to help women and children (both male and female) in Mormonism using this board has been harmed.

I also request, Dr. Shades, that you shut this thread so no more posts can be made so it doesn’t get cluttered with more insults of me at its ending.

Maybe I will have to use my YouTube channel when future things come up. I would have preferred to keep this more quiet than that because all I wanted was a public record and to go on with my life knowing I didn’t stay silent when awful harms were being perpetrated against innocent people. I will have to think about that.

Goodbye. I’m not sure if I’ll ever see any of you at a Mormon conference of any sort because besides protecting women and children, Mormonism has little meaning to me anymore.

But if things change in the future and I see you in the real world, please let me know who you are from the board. I might grimace a bit because I’ve rarely been treated kindly here, but I will appreciate the memory of the work I tried to do to help Mormonism and exMormonism all the same.

Tears,
Rosebud

Goodbye all.

[drumdude]

To give Marcus and Drumdude control over who sees my information is very insulting to me personally. They have treated me awfully and I have used a great deal of patience and attempts at compassion and kindness to do my best to not retaliate. I have sought to treat them far better than they treat me.

I’m sure Marcus will be as tickled as I am by this complete mischaracterization of the facts!

Take care Rosebud. You can ignore us, and now everyone can ignore you again.

On ignore:
Rosebud

[Marcus]

Everyone, thanks again for everything you have posted. I have read each one and done my best to digest them.

IMPORTANT: Rosebud is **NOT** in danger of being banned. No matter what happens to her megathread, she'll be just as welcome to keep participating here as anyone else.

SIDE NOTE: Mr. Dehlin has **NOT** threatened this board, legally or otherwise.

Considering everything that's been posted, and how relatively close the votes have been, I believe the proper and prudent action is to move Rosebud's megathread to the Telestial Forum, where personal attacks are allowed. Yes, I will consider allegations of illegal conduct as personal attacks, and since the target of said attacks is a poster here, those charges and the thread in which they reside can and should be reclassified as Telestial.

In order to avoid censoring her or curtailing her freedom of speech, she and everyone else will be able to continue to read and post in it. The difference is that only registered users--those with "skin in the game"--will be able to see it, no one else.

The next step will be to decide if this thread, too, should be moved to the Telestial Forum, since it refers to said attacks. For now, though, I think I'll leave it (i.e., THIS thread, not the megathread) here until participation in it ends, then move it.

Marcus and drumdude, hopefully you will now agree that the rules are being followed.

To give Marcus and Drumdude control over who sees my information is very insulting to me personally. They have treated me awfully and I have used a great deal of patience and attempts at compassion and kindness to do my best to not retaliate. I have sought to treat them far better than they treat me.

Lol. You really think Shades has given non-mod posters control?

Just a reminder, I was one of the very few who argued in support of your original position that you were sexually harassed. I still feel that way but your posts have been wildly inappropriate here. Pointing this out is not treating you awfully.

The entire purpose of my thread is to keep a public record, not a private record. If the Telestial board is private, there is little purpose to my thread.

Interesting. In the past you have said this is for future historians. What you really wanted was a protected platform to make your false accusations. Shades did the right thing.

From my perspective, I am the only one with any real skin in this, and it is not a game. These are real issues that affect many people, the very least of which are the members of this little message board on the back side of the Internet….

Lol. So which is it, a public record? Or stuff on a tiny message board no one sees?

...My purpose has been ended and the exposure that needs to happen to help women and children (both male and female) in Mormonism using this board has been harmed...

Your posts don't further the position of women. Just a reminder, SEVEN years ago, after you doxxed yourself here, someone, as one professional postmormon woman to another, posted this advice for you:

http://[in real life link]

oh boy. Fell free to tell me to **** off, but, speaking as a woman with a BIC- tbm background who has gone through this process of extricating oneself from LDS influences, may I say that going forward, you will want to have a professional footprint that can be taken seriously. It is nice, as candygal said, to get to know each other, but linking your in real life professional data with the type of posts you leave here does NOT help your professional image.

....there's something about me that makes me vulnerable. My vulnerability is my problem, but to some extent, it comes from Mormonism. I've started to sort that out...

Right. Since 2011, yes? Get it done. Sorry to be so abrupt, and I know it's not fair but you are not setting yourself up for a future where you are taken seriously as a professional woman if you continue to publicly wallow in this. I am totally sympathetic to the long period of time it takes to get over stuff like this, but think about your professional image and work on yourself in private, maybe in a therapist's office.

I'm really pissed that all these transitioning Mormons, who I care about, run into JD first thing (and his female counterparts) and get sucked into a new set of problems that is a repeat of the trauma they're trying to escape. Over the last 5 years I've seen such positive development and a maturing of the post-Mo community. I'd like it to develop beyond its dependence on its charismatic leader.

Come on. Again, I know you won't like this unsympathetic stance, but as a grown woman how professionally do you think you will be treated if you continue, for years and in public, to lament over the "power" a "charismatic leader" has had over you during your adult years? Plenty of women, post-Mormon or not, find themselves enjoying a community with no need for a dependence on any sort of leader. That you define a community in terms like that is still that old Mormon way of thinking.

I've resigned all my positions. If I ever get back into any projects, it will be with one of the few solid, grounded leaders. They're harder to find because they're not screaming from mountaintops as often.

Or, radical idea, be your own solid, grounded leader. I understand the Mormon background in this process, but professionally, you just come across as never getting over the need to keep looking for a man to pull your life together for you. You're an adult. Pull your own life together!

Maybe someone needs to put together a blueprint for not being deceived by the creeps in the transitioning Mormon landscape.

There are thousands. You don't need one just for Mormon transitioning because although it feels so unique to you, it's really not a unique problem at all. See a psychiatrist or therapist and discuss the various options you have for learning how to finish growing up.

Now I'm just frightened for new members of his communities....

The church creates a dependent people, disappoints them, then abandons them to these jerks and very few seem to safely navigate the weeds. I certainly didn't. But what can the church do to protect people from JD besides what they've already done?

Again, no offense, but we are talking about adults, right? Not helpless children. I empathize because I went through all of this myself, but honestly, you have to do the work yourself. No one is obligated to protect you from life.

I know I sound harsh, but it's still not a clear sailing path for professional women to be taken seriously. I went through my similar battle while attending graduate school in Manhattan. Talk about out of the frying pan into the fire. :rolleyes: You just have to grit your teeth and grow the hell up, as fast as you can, all the while behaving as professionally as possible.

And last, you have to present yourself in the best light you can. It's not fair, I know, but there are still plenty of people who will discriminate based on gender. You can't fix each one, or run out of the room crying every time, or vow revenge online in traceable posts or you will never get any work done. You just have to personally hold yourself to the highest standard you can, and then ignore the rest. Assume virtually no one in the professional world wants to hear you discuss your gender-related vulnerabilities, and just let them know you can do the job. Period. Whatever your gender.

I have posted different things here at different times to have a different affect on JD

Really? He still has that much power over you that you feel you need to demonstrate publicly that you have an effect on him?

Anyway, just consider this post my approach to how to have a professional life, as a woman, after growing up in what I consider to have been a cult-like environment. I'm not trying to tell you how I want you to be, as you mentioned in a recent post to me, it's just irritating to see a woman go on and on like this so I am sharing how the process worked for me.

You took a different path.

[Kishkumen]

The entire purpose of my thread is to keep a public record, not a private record. If the Telestial board is private, there is little purpose to my thread.

From my perspective, I am the only one with any real skin in this, and it is not a game. These are real issues that affect many people, the very least of which are the members of this little message board on the back side of the Internet…. posters with no skin in these matters and people who consider it a game when it is definitely not.

I would appreciate it if you, Dr. Shades, would indeed keep this thread here so the public knows to sign in and find my record.

Other than that, I think it’s goodbye. My purpose has been ended and the exposure that needs to happen to help women and children (both male and female) in Mormonism using this board has been harmed.

I also request, Dr. Shades, that you shut this thread so no more posts can be made so it doesn’t get cluttered with more insults of me at its ending.

Maybe I will have to use my YouTube channel when future things come up. I would have preferred to keep this more quiet than that because all I wanted was a public record and to go on with my life knowing I didn’t stay silent when awful harms were being perpetrated against innocent people. I will have to think about that.

Goodbye. I’m not sure if I’ll ever see any of you at a Mormon conference of any sort because besides protecting women and children, Mormonism has little meaning to me anymore.

But if things change in the future and I see you in the real world, please let me know who you are from the board. I might grimace a bit because I’ve rarely been treated kindly here, but I will appreciate the memory of the work I tried to do to help Mormonism and exMormonism all the same.

Tears,
Rosebud

Goodbye all.

This post is emblematic of the problems Rosebud has had. She rushes to judgment and then into action. The Telestial forum is NOT PRIVATE.

The other irony is that she views me as an enemy, even when I advocate positions in her interest, and she has blocked me so that she will not see this correction. Of course, her haste, if she is as good as her word about leaving, precludes the possibility anyway.

Nice self-defeating behavior once again, Rosebud. May you learn these lessons yet.

[Doctor Steuss]

With your proclaimed exit from the board, should you return to see this, I hope that any time and energy you may regain from not participating here can be channeled into finally working with a licensed and reputable therapist. Maybe someone that is able to properly diagnose and treat personality disorders.

The longer you continue to spend crafting this curated universe of yours, the more difficult it will be to fully unravel it in a healthy and productive way.

Healing is hard. Correcting disorders is hard. Changing tainted worldviews and unhealthy self-images is hard. Though hard, I can personally attest it is well worth it.

[Jesse Pinkman]

With your proclaimed exit from the board, should you return to see this, I hope that any time and energy you may regain from not participating here can be channeled into finally working with a licensed and reputable therapist. Maybe someone that is able to properly diagnose and treat personality disorders.

The longer you continue to spend crafting this curated universe of yours, the more difficult it will be to fully unravel it in a healthy and productive way.

Healing is hard. Correcting disorders is hard. Changing tainted worldviews and unhealthy self-images is hard. Though hard, I can personally attest it is well worth it.

Beautiful thoughts.