DCP, living in the past.

[Kishkumen]

I think that’s true in a sense. But the picture is mostly static, and viewers disagree if there is 1 main character or 3, if they’re speaking English or Spanish, and if the setting for the show is at the bottom of the ocean or deep outer space.

Some even think the whole broadcast is just random static, and our pattern seeking brains will construct an entire story where none exists. Who can say for sure?

Well, I was limiting the scope of my comments to those people who believe in some well-established version of monotheism.

[drumdude]

I think that’s true in a sense. But the picture is mostly static, and viewers disagree if there is 1 main character or 3, if they’re speaking English or Spanish, and if the setting for the show is at the bottom of the ocean or deep outer space.

Some even think the whole broadcast is just random static, and our pattern seeking brains will construct an entire story where none exists. Who can say for sure?

Well, I was limiting the scope of my comments to those people who believe in some well-established version of monotheism.

Some of them think Haile Selassie might have been God!

I honestly don’t know how you, or anyone for that matter, is able to judge signal from noise amongst these beliefs. Who is to say Haile Selassie wasn’t the 2nd coming of Christ? In the realm of religious belief anything goes.

At some point once you’ve heard enough.

[Kishkumen]

Some of them think Haile Selassie might have been God!

I honestly don’t know how you, or anyone for that matter, is able to judge signal from noise amongst these beliefs. Who is to say Haile Selassie wasn’t the 2nd coming of Christ? In the realm of religious belief anything goes.

At some point once you’ve heard enough.

I get what you are saying, and I do understand the fatigue that comes from dealing with religious belief.

[Markk]

That is interesting. What is your performance record then, how do you gauge that ? It makes sense in a way from my limited interactions with you. Do you struggle with self-worth and the need to be accepted? The "Dunning-Kruger effect" is interesting and I have been reading, listening, and lightly working my way through it recently; I heard Rogan touch on it a month or so ago. Do you feel the need, based on your need for performance, to know everything? Do you feel you are above average in most subjects?

I personally don't see how my passions, cares, and loves is an investment in identity, but just the opposite. My passions, cares, and loves identify and paint a portrait of who I am. I accept that and am at peace with it, and far from being a burden. But hey that is just me, and again I only know what I know.

Let me put it this way: You really don't know what I am talking about, and I am not going to spend time explaining it to you. All I will say is this: most of us are ignorant of most things, and I am no different from the rest of humanity. My model for epistemological humility is Socrates.

LOL...but without the two way dialog. In other words, per the mid 19th century Philosopher Jacob MacCandles, you are short on ears, and long on mouth, unlike Socrates, at least from the little I know about him, he listened.

[drumdude]

What are your religious beliefs, Markk? I didn’t know til DCP wrote about it that you’re an evangelical, was that after you left Mormonism?

[Kishkumen]

LOL...but without the two way dialog. In other words, per the mid 19th century Philosopher Jacob MacCandles, you are short on ears, and long on mouth, unlike Socrates, at least from the little I know about him, he listened.

In other words, you like doling out accusations that best describe your own behavior. Every accusation is a confession.

[Markk]

My latest post to Dan.

Dan: Actually, I don't. But sometimes I feel the need to correct the public record.

[Markk:] Why don't you do so with the 2nd Watson Letter? I am sure the "public" would love for you to "correctly" set the record straight (question by request of your benevolent stalker)."

Dan: Do you really imagine that the general public knows or cares even slightly about that non-issue? (Incidentally, you owe my Malevolent Stalker for his coaching you on it. He's really dedicated, isn't he?) For one thing, I think it’s about twenty-five or thirty years old.. I scarcely remember it now. (Cue howls of outraged derision.) And it was never of central importance. Not to me and not to our position.

The fundamental point to remember here is that, although your cheerleader and coach, my Malevolent Stalker, has long accused me and my associates of lying about it (and virtually everything else), I didn’t and we didn't. Notwithstanding the Stalker’s continual accusations, I'm not only not a liar but I’m not stupid. And yet I would have to be a massively stupid fool, as a member of the Church and a professor at the Church’s flagship university, to have brazenly and publicly lied about a communication from the Office of the First Presidency. Moreover, as a believing Latter-day Saint who accepts the First Presidency as prophets, seers, and revelatory, I would simply never, ever, knowingly seek to misrepresent their position. Never.

There. I think we're caught up. I've responded to every comment that you've submitted here and even, for that matter, to two comments that you've falsely claimed to have submitted here.

If you accuse me of having suppressed any comment from you that you've actually tried to post here, you'll be bearing false witness.

Incidentally, don't post here any more about the so-called "Second Watson Letter." You may be willing to dance to the Malevolent Stalker's tune, but I'm not. He wants to keep his slanderous accusation alive, and he's free to try. But I won't allow him the use of my own blog to do it.
________
Markk: Dan, I am not really sure what Dr. Scratch's opinion is on the 2nd letter, I can only tell you mine, mostly based on RFM's break down of it on his podcast. Based on the evidences he presented it appears that Bill and yourself embellished the fax, into a letter. And, as always the real "crime" often rolls over into the cover up, as we see now.

Honestly for me the whole conversation is a joke given that I know what I was taught in my years in the church. Two Cumorah's is just a joke. The LGT (south) is a vain attempt to salvage testimonies and mopolgentic street cred.

We (my generation and many before and after) were taught and understood that the Hill Cumorah was in New York period. I wish I had the old flannel teaching aids that we were taught with in Jr SS and primary with the the warriors on the hill, that same hill where Joseph received the plates.

Your command not to post here about claims of a 2nd letter shows a real weak point in your armor Dan, again the cover up is always worse than the crime.

[Markk]

LOL...but without the two way dialog. In other words, per the mid 19th century Philosopher Jacob MacCandles, you are short on ears, and long on mouth, unlike Socrates, at least from the little I know about him, he listened.

In other words, you like doling out accusations that best describe your own behavior. Every accusation is a confession.

Kish I asked you fair question in regard to your remarks. You can deal with them our not.

[Kishkumen]

Kish I asked you fair question in regard to your remarks. You can deal with them our not.

You can dance around different topics all you like, but no one is obliged to dance to your tune with you.

[Doctor Scratch]

No, it simply shows that I'm not interested in discussing the topic anymore, and that I won't permit my blog to be commandeered for accusations that I'm dishonest. The matter is really old. I really don't remember many of the details decades after the fact. It wasn't that big a deal for me at the time. It has become a big deal for a few people now because a relatively small handful of folks out there want to use it to demonstrate that Bill Hamblin and I lied. But I know that we didn't, because we weren't liars. And that's about all that I'm in a position to say with any confidence at this late date. And I've said it, multiple times. And repeating it over and over and over again doesn't make for very interesting conversation. It's merely tiresome.

Don't raise the matter here again. (I'm serious about that.) You folks have plenty of other platforms from which to level the accusation of lying against me, and I understand that some of you have been using them and intend to continue to use them in that noble cause. (Bill, alas, is not in a position to reply.) But you can't have my blog for you efforts. Sorry.

They didn't lie "because we weren't liars"? What a bizarre answer. Then how did they come to believe that something that was plainly *NOT* a signed letter from F. Michael Watson, actually *was* a letter from F. Michael Watson? They published this claim in the pages of their allegedly "peer reviewed" journal! Look, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they didn't "lie." Maybe they were confused? Maybe they had sort of "deluded" themselves into thinking that this fax was actually a "2nd Watson Letter"? Like, they so badly wanted it to be true, that it because true in their minds? What happened, exactly?

But, I get it: he doesn't want to say because it this point, it's pretty much impossible to spin-doctor it in a way where he gets out of the issue scot-free. But make no mistake: the 2nd Watson Letter is absolutely devastating to pretty much everything he represents as a Mopologist. If he and Hamblin *did* lie, then what else did they lie about? Getting paid to do apologetics? Did they lie about what happened at the Maxwell Institute in 2012? (For example, they actually know that the ouster was ordered by General Authorities, but they've been lying about it?)

Meanwhile, the Afore has become one of the main proponents of the reliability of the Witnesses. This has been arguably his main apologetic goal of the past 5 years or so. And yet what does it say when we examine his *own* role as a "witness" of the 2nd Watson Letter? It is absolutely devastating. Him trying to brush it aside and censor discussion of it only guarantees that it is going to become a focal point of discussion in 2025.