The CES letter was popular because it was a PDF

[Marcus]

“Those guys were warriors,” remarked one prominent Church defender—a common sentiment.

Who is the unnamed “prominent Church defender”?

Who indeed. His comment was in quotes. Surely the authors could provide a source.

(Who am I kidding. The mopologetics have no integrity in matters like this.)

[Markk]

It would be great if someone with a Disqus account could go over there and set the record straight in the Comments and let everyone know that FARMS wasn’t “disbanded,” but that it ended because DCP resigned.

I did comment on the article, not with your specific concern, but a more general look at the article. My attempt was yesterday and while it appeared to post, it is no longer there. So it was either removed or never made it out of after being reviewed.

My comments in general was that it is no ones fault but the churches, that the CES letter disturbed so many members. I wrote:

"Thanks for the read

There is so much to discuss with this, and so many different avenues to take I am not sure where to start.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that this article is written using the same faulty error that The Church, FARM's, FAIR, the NMI, etc., took and takes. It starts out with the automatic assumption and hollow talking points that the history of the Church and their "truth claims" are without error and is a target without reason. A victim.

I agree, and Jeremy readily admits, that the CES letter is nothing new. It is basically selected Jerald and Sandra Tanner Ministry material put in letter form. He said so on Mormon Stories.

I agree it was "perfect" timing with the WWW, and the Smart Phone. A 14 year old member could read it at the bus stop, or in seminary.

Where I disagree, is that the fault lies nowhere but in the Brethren's laps. The membership, especially the youth and young adults weren't prepared because of outside sources like FARM's or the NMI stopped the aggressive apologetic. The CES letter was successful because the Church did not teach the truth in SS, PH, Relief Society, and by default in our homes.

The church, correct me if I am wrong, had/have faithful members for at least 4 hours a week, not including seminary and institute for the youth and young adults. What are they learning that would make the CES letter information be such a shock?

Brian, how many members today know what you know about the polygamy and polyandry of Joseph Smith. How many members know that Emma was something like the 20th plus wife sealed to him? How many members know he married the Partridge sisters twice, once behind her back?

I can go on and on. We can dissect the CES letter. But the reason it was and is so effective is because the leadership and correlation have not prepared the membership, they have failed them.

Most everything that is written by the Church is cryptic. Like Brian's Essay on Polygamy in the Gospel Topics Essays, which I guess was heavily edited, the Church teachings are designed for a thinking member to gather just enough to find a truth, and for the faithful chapel Mormon just enough old narrative for plausible deniability.

Are members victims? Sure. But not because of Jeremy's letter, but because the church has failed to tell them the truth, and then let the folks decide."


Ironically, I just started reading the new thread about the church introducing Polygamy via cartoons to the youth. They are doing exactly what I pointed out in my comment, that they can't truthfully just tell it like it is. It is always cryptic, feeding two different audiences.

In that thread it shows a cartoon image of Joseph praying with Emma to accept the commandment, however we know she was one of the last to know that Joseph was marrying other women under this commandment.

Hales arguments are getting weaker and weaker. He has gone from admitting Joseph practiced polygamy and polyandry, to the Book of Mormon being true because no other author could do what Joseph did in a short time, to this non-sense that the information in the CES letter had effect because of PDF and that aggressive apologetic was shut down.

Think about it, it has been 10 years now since the CES letter came out, and only now is the church attempting to teach children in church, even if watered down, a truth that Jeremy asked questions about.

[Bret Ripley]

Organized by Dr. John W. Welch in 1979, FARMS consisted of an informal collaboration of academics devoted to Latter-day Saint historical scholarship.

I wasn’t aware that John Welch had a doctorate. Which school awarded it? What was the title of his dissertation?

Evidently, some states (cough-Texas-cough) have ruled that it is not quite an abomination to refer to someone with a J.D. as "doctor."

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630150 ... octors_too

[Tom]

I wasn’t aware that John Welch had a doctorate. Which school awarded it? What was the title of his dissertation?

Evidently, some states (cough-Texas-cough) have ruled that it is not quite an abomination to refer to someone with a J.D. as "doctor."

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630150 ... octors_too

Interesting. After looking around, I found several other online references to “Dr.” Welch.

[Bret Ripley]

Evidently, some states (cough-Texas-cough) have ruled that it is not quite an abomination to refer to someone with a J.D. as "doctor."

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630150 ... octors_too

Interesting. After looking around, I found several other online references to “Dr.” Welch.

[drumdude]

I wasn’t aware that John Welch had a doctorate. Which school awarded it? What was the title of his dissertation?

Evidently, some states (cough-Texas-cough) have ruled that it is not quite an abomination to refer to someone with a J.D. as "doctor."

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630150 ... octors_too

Better Call Dr. Saul!

[L.E.Hills]

Anti-Mos worshipping the CES Letter as an excuse not to attend Church for two hours.

Oh great and glorious CES Letter! Let me print off your .pdf and worship you!

[drumdude]

Anti-Mos worshipping the CES Letter as an excuse not to attend Church for two hours.

Oh great and glorious CES Letter! Let me print off your .pdf and worship you!

I have this hanging in my house where the original photo of the first presidency used to be. I personally pray to Jeremy 5 times a day, facing roughly the direction of American Fork where he was excommunicated/martyred.

[L.E.Hills]

That's Amazing!

Have you heard of the CES Letter Fan Club and Store?
And the Monthly Subscription to the CES Letter?

Here are some reviews found on Social Media!

• "The CES Letter is amazing! If it wasn't for The CES Letter, I wouldn't know what to believe, because I never read The Book of Mormon before."
  - Toad Brain, Swamp City, SC

• "The CES Letter is my go to reference guide! I gladly signed up for Jeremy Runnells monthly subscription for The CES Letter. The Monthly updates keep me well informed on what to believe! At only $59.95 a month, it's a great deal! And Tithing not included! I can also pay in BitCoin! And the downloadble monthly PDFs are free! It's the real deal!
  - Fred, Nowhereville, Ill

• "In addition to the monthly newsletter subscription, I signed up for the CES Letter FanClub. For an additional $9.95 a month, I can access the CES Letter Store for free! I really like the CES Letter T-Shirts, socks and coffee mugs. What's really great are the CES Letter decals that I placed on the back windows and bumper of my car! It's increased the resale value! Can't beat that in this day of inflation!"
  - Bert

• "The CES Letter is wonderful. I've added it as the 27th letter to my alphabet and is now part of my everyday vocabulary!"
  - Gertrude

[L.E.Hills]

Alfred endorses the CES Letter